Traveling refresher

[Camron Rust]

Travel.

The only action permitted when lying on the floor it to sit up. And I have never seen a person "sit up" from their belly (or any other position) to their knees as that would be getting up, not sitting up. Sitting up would be from their back to their butt.

Rising to the knees is a partial attempt to stand. Basically, the rule doesn't allow them to get to a more advantageous position aside from the specific one listed (sitting up).

Plus, if they had been on their back, and got to that position, you'd have had a rollover first....traveling long before they got to the knees.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Travel.

The only action permitted when lying on the floor it to sit up. And I have never seen a person "sit up" from their belly (or any other position) to their knees as that would be getting up, not sitting up. Sitting up would be from their back to their butt.

Rising to the knees is a partial attempt to stand. Basically, the rule doesn't allow them to get to a more advantageous position aside from the specific one listed (sitting up).

Plus, if they had been on their back, and got to that position, you'd have had a rollover first....traveling long before they got to the knees.

I agree on the issue of the player on his back going to his knees. That's a travel.

A player on his stomach going to his knees, however, has not done anything prohibited by rule, IMO. I don't see it as an attempt to stand.

[BillyMac]

Traveling is moving a foot or feet in any direction in excess of prescribed limits
while holding the ball. The limits on foot movements are as follows:
A player holding the ball:
b. After gaining control while on the floor and touching with other than hand
or foot, may not attempt to get up or stand.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Traveling is moving a foot or feet in any direction in excess of prescribed limits
while holding the ball. The limits on foot movements are as follows:
A player holding the ball:
b. After gaining control while on the floor and touching with other than hand
or foot, may not attempt to get up or stand.

This may not be akin to the OP, but might be a good one to analyze:
Traveling or Not Did She Roll Over or Not - YouTube

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Freddy

This may not be akin to the OP, but might be a good one to analyze:

I do not have a travel on that one. When she got the ball, she was as much on her butt as her side and only stabilized herself into the most natural position.

[OKREF]

Travel in OP.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I do not have a travel on that one. When she got the ball, she was as much on her butt as her side and only stabilized herself into the most natural position.

I can agree with your call, but not with your reasoning. "Stabilized herself into the most natural position" is neither part of the rule, nor is it part of the interpretation. How about it's not a travel because she didn't roll over, nor did she attempt to get up. She did a perfectly legal maneuver, sitting straight up after gaining control of the ball while flat on her back.

4.44.5 SITUATION B: A1 dives for a loose ball and slides after gaining control.
A1 is in a position either on his/her back or stomach. What can A1 do without
violating? RULING: A1 may pass, shoot, start a dribble or call a time-out. Once
A1 has the ball and is no longer sliding, he/she may not roll over. If flat on his/her
back, A1 may sit up without violating. Any attempt to get to the feet is traveling
unless A1 is dribbling. It is also traveling if A1 puts the ball on the floor, then rises
and is first to touch the ball. (4-44-5b)

4.44.5 SITUATION D: A1 secures possession of the ball with one knee in contact
with the floor. May A1 assume a standing position without committing a traveling
violation? RULING: It depends on what A1 does. If A1 attempts to stand up
while holding the ball, a traveling violation occurs. However, if A1 starts a dribble
and then rises, no violation has occurred. Also, A1 could pass, try for goal or call
a time-out from that position.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I can agree with your call, but not with your reasoning. "Stabilized herself into the most natural position" is neither part of the rule, nor is it part of the interpretation. How about it's not a travel because she didn't roll over, nor did she attempt to get up. She did a perfectly legal maneuver, sitting straight up after gaining control of the ball while flat on her back.

Actually, I believe it is part of the rule too, or at least it is in line with NFHS interpretation regarding diving and tumbling/sliding in the process of securing a loose ball. A player gets to come to rest in a stable position, not propped up in an awkward one.

Originally Posted by Freddy

This may not be akin to the OP, but might be a good one to analyze

Travel in the OP; no travel on your play Freddo.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by AremRed

No travel on your play Freddo.

She didn't move her pivot cheek.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Adam

I agree on the issue of the player on his back going to his knees. That's a travel.

A player on his stomach going to his knees, however, has not done anything prohibited by rule, IMO. I don't see it as an attempt to stand.

Not even an attempt to "get up"? What then is the reason for the statement (in either the case book or rule book, I don't remember where) about a player who is on their back being allowed to sit with no mention of other upward motions. Seems like they are allowing for that one action to be legal but not anything else.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Not even an attempt to "get up"? What then is the reason for the statement (in either the case book or rule book, I don't remember where) about a player who is on their back being allowed to sit with no mention of other upward motions. Seems like they are allowing for that one action to be legal but not anything else.

I see it differently, as what is not forbidden is allowed. I don't see going to the knee from the stomach as an "attempt to get up."

I could be wrong, but I see "get up" and "stand" here as the same thing. So, standing is illegal, and attempting to stand is illegal. Rolling over is illegal. Sliding after the inertia ceases is illegal.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Adam

I see it differently, as what is not forbidden is allowed. I don't see going to the knee from the stomach as an "attempt to get up."

I could be wrong, but I see "get up" and "stand" here as the same thing. So, standing is illegal, and attempting to stand is illegal. Rolling over is illegal. Sliding after the inertia ceases is illegal.

Depends on how you want to look at it. Player is not allowed to make any "attempt to get up." If you are on your back, the first step is to sit up. This is specifically allowed. If you are on your stomach, you rise up to your knees. This is not mentioned as being legal, so it falls under the blanket of being illegal.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Depends on how you want to look at it. Player is not allowed to make any "attempt to get up." If you are on your back, the first step is to sit up. This is specifically allowed. If you are on your stomach, you rise up to your knees. This is not mentioned as being legal, so it falls under the blanket of being illegal.

It really depends on how you define "attempt to get up." I see it as equal to "attempt to stand," and in that light can't see how it applies to going from the stomach to the knee. Otherwise a player who controls the ball while on their stomach is restricted to requested a timeout.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Adam

It really depends on how you define "attempt to get up." I see it as equal to "attempt to stand," and in that light can't see how it applies to going from the stomach to the knee. Otherwise a player who controls the ball while on their stomach is restricted to requested a timeout.

You can pass the ball, sorta, from your stomach.