Traveling refresher

[Amesman]

Might have overextended on this one in first summer ball game a couple weeks ago.

Loose ball, pinball action winds up with A1 recovering ball while with either stomach, side or back on the ground. (Don't recall exact position now.) She then "rises" so to be kneeling (without turning/rolling over) and passes the ball away. No attempt at standing or placing a foot flat on the floor. Just kneeling tall. Seemed like a natural "sit-up" action, only with legs behind, so as to come to a praying pose. Whatcha got?

Jumbled brain tweeted a travel, thinking it was trying to establish too much after being down.

[bob jenkins]

I'd have "legal"

[Camron Rust]

Travel.

The only action permitted when lying on the floor it to sit up. And I have never seen a person "sit up" from their belly (or any other position) to their knees as that would be getting up, not sitting up. Sitting up would be from their back to their butt.

Rising to the knees is a partial attempt to stand. Basically, the rule doesn't allow them to get to a more advantageous position aside from the specific one listed (sitting up).

Plus, if they had been on their back, and got to that position, you'd have had a rollover first....traveling long before they got to the knees.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Travel.

The only action permitted when lying on the floor it to sit up. And I have never seen a person "sit up" from their belly (or any other position) to their knees as that would be getting up, not sitting up. Sitting up would be from their back to their butt.

Rising to the knees is a partial attempt to stand. Basically, the rule doesn't allow them to get to a more advantageous position aside from the specific one listed (sitting up).

Plus, if they had been on their back, and got to that position, you'd have had a rollover first....traveling long before they got to the knees.

I agree on the issue of the player on his back going to his knees. That's a travel.

A player on his stomach going to his knees, however, has not done anything prohibited by rule, IMO. I don't see it as an attempt to stand.

[BillyMac]

Traveling is moving a foot or feet in any direction in excess of prescribed limits
while holding the ball. The limits on foot movements are as follows:
A player holding the ball:
b. After gaining control while on the floor and touching with other than hand
or foot, may not attempt to get up or stand.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Traveling is moving a foot or feet in any direction in excess of prescribed limits
while holding the ball. The limits on foot movements are as follows:
A player holding the ball:
b. After gaining control while on the floor and touching with other than hand
or foot, may not attempt to get up or stand.

This may not be akin to the OP, but might be a good one to analyze:
Traveling or Not Did She Roll Over or Not - YouTube

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Adam

I agree on the issue of the player on his back going to his knees. That's a travel.

A player on his stomach going to his knees, however, has not done anything prohibited by rule, IMO. I don't see it as an attempt to stand.

Not even an attempt to "get up"? What then is the reason for the statement (in either the case book or rule book, I don't remember where) about a player who is on their back being allowed to sit with no mention of other upward motions. Seems like they are allowing for that one action to be legal but not anything else.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Not even an attempt to "get up"? What then is the reason for the statement (in either the case book or rule book, I don't remember where) about a player who is on their back being allowed to sit with no mention of other upward motions. Seems like they are allowing for that one action to be legal but not anything else.

I see it differently, as what is not forbidden is allowed. I don't see going to the knee from the stomach as an "attempt to get up."

I could be wrong, but I see "get up" and "stand" here as the same thing. So, standing is illegal, and attempting to stand is illegal. Rolling over is illegal. Sliding after the inertia ceases is illegal.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Travel.

The only action permitted when lying on the floor it to sit up. And I have never seen a person "sit up" from their belly (or any other position) to their knees as that would be getting up, not sitting up. Sitting up would be from their back to their butt.

Rising to the knees is a partial attempt to stand. Basically, the rule doesn't allow them to get to a more advantageous position aside from the specific one listed (sitting up).

Plus, if they had been on their back, and got to that position, you'd have had a rollover first....traveling long before they got to the knees.

Originally Posted by Adam

I agree on the issue of the player on his back going to his knees. That's a travel.

A player on his stomach going to his knees, however, has not done anything prohibited by rule, IMO. I don't see it as an attempt to stand.

Getting to this a little late but I have to agree with Camron.

Player is flat on his stomach. To stand, he will either
1- rolling over on to his butt
2- put both hands on the floor and walk up with his feet
3- or rise to a his knees.

When he rises to his knees, his attempting to get up. It make no difference whether he makes it to his feet or not. Attempting to get up constitutes traveling.

Attempt get up OR stand? If he goes from stomach to his knees, he has removed his torso from the floor. It may not be an attempt to stand but he certainly did get up.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Amesman

Might have overextended on this one in first summer ball game a couple weeks ago.

Loose ball, pinball action winds up with A1 recovering ball while with either stomach, side or back on the ground. (Don't recall exact position now.) She then "rises" so to be kneeling (without turning/rolling over) and passes the ball away. No attempt at standing or placing a foot flat on the floor. Just kneeling tall. Seemed like a natural "sit-up" action, only with legs behind, so as to come to a praying pose. Whatcha got?

Jumbled brain tweeted a travel, thinking it was trying to establish too much after being down.

Too much uncertainty in what happened for me to put a whistle on it.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Too much uncertainty in what happened for me to put a whistle on it.

Uncertainty? A player is flat on the floor (belly, back, side, doesn't really matter) with the ball and then upright on their knees still with the ball. What is uncertain about that?

The is only one movement that is allowed by rule for a player who is lying on the floor...a player on his/her back may sit up. That's it.

The only question that exists is whether you consider a person on their knees to be sitting?

[ballgame99]

Since we are on the subject; had a play in summer ball a few weeks ago where a player dove after a loose ball, and in one motion caught the ball and rolled over while in the process of landing. By that I mean his chest/stomach never touched the ground, his elbow/shoulder may have touched slightly as he was roling in the air, and he lands on his back. I had no call. The fact that his elbow/shoulder hit as he's rolling doesn't matter does it?

[Amesman]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Uncertainty?
The is only one movement that is allowed by rule for a player who is lying on the floor...a player on his/her back may sit up. That's it.

The only question that exists is whether you consider a person on their knees to be sitting?

Bingo. I hear you all, but this is really the question I came down to.

To make it simpler, picture it this way: If someone is on her stomach, can she get upright on her knees and pass?

[Adam]

There is disagreement here as to whether this is a travel. Some say going from the prone position to kneeling is not allowed and is an attempt to stand. Others don't. Bob and Camron are two respected examples from each side.