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Old Wed Jun 25, 2014, 11:03am
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Traveling refresher

Might have overextended on this one in first summer ball game a couple weeks ago.

Loose ball, pinball action winds up with A1 recovering ball while with either stomach, side or back on the ground. (Don't recall exact position now.) She then "rises" so to be kneeling (without turning/rolling over) and passes the ball away. No attempt at standing or placing a foot flat on the floor. Just kneeling tall. Seemed like a natural "sit-up" action, only with legs behind, so as to come to a praying pose. Whatcha got?

Jumbled brain tweeted a travel, thinking it was trying to establish too much after being down.
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Old Wed Jun 25, 2014, 11:24am
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I'd have "legal"
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Old Wed Jun 25, 2014, 12:34pm
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Travel.

The only action permitted when lying on the floor it to sit up. And I have never seen a person "sit up" from their belly (or any other position) to their knees as that would be getting up, not sitting up. Sitting up would be from their back to their butt.

Rising to the knees is a partial attempt to stand. Basically, the rule doesn't allow them to get to a more advantageous position aside from the specific one listed (sitting up).

Plus, if they had been on their back, and got to that position, you'd have had a rollover first....traveling long before they got to the knees.
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Old Wed Jun 25, 2014, 01:06pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amesman View Post
Might have overextended on this one in first summer ball game a couple weeks ago.

Loose ball, pinball action winds up with A1 recovering ball while with either stomach, side or back on the ground. (Don't recall exact position now.) She then "rises" so to be kneeling (without turning/rolling over) and passes the ball away. No attempt at standing or placing a foot flat on the floor. Just kneeling tall. Seemed like a natural "sit-up" action, only with legs behind, so as to come to a praying pose. Whatcha got?

Jumbled brain tweeted a travel, thinking it was trying to establish too much after being down.
Too much uncertainty in what happened for me to put a whistle on it.
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Old Wed Jun 25, 2014, 02:04pm
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Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
Too much uncertainty in what happened for me to put a whistle on it.
Uncertainty? A player is flat on the floor (belly, back, side, doesn't really matter) with the ball and then upright on their knees still with the ball. What is uncertain about that?

The is only one movement that is allowed by rule for a player who is lying on the floor...a player on his/her back may sit up. That's it.

The only question that exists is whether you consider a person on their knees to be sitting?
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Last edited by Camron Rust; Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 02:42pm.
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Old Wed Jun 25, 2014, 03:43pm
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Since we are on the subject; had a play in summer ball a few weeks ago where a player dove after a loose ball, and in one motion caught the ball and rolled over while in the process of landing. By that I mean his chest/stomach never touched the ground, his elbow/shoulder may have touched slightly as he was roling in the air, and he lands on his back. I had no call. The fact that his elbow/shoulder hit as he's rolling doesn't matter does it?
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Old Wed Jun 25, 2014, 03:47pm
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Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
Uncertainty?
The is only one movement that is allowed by rule for a player who is lying on the floor...a player on his/her back may sit up. That's it.

The only question that exists is whether you consider a person on their knees to be sitting?
Bingo. I hear you all, but this is really the question I came down to.

To make it simpler, picture it this way: If someone is on her stomach, can she get upright on her knees and pass?
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Old Wed Jun 25, 2014, 03:48pm
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There is disagreement here as to whether this is a travel. Some say going from the prone position to kneeling is not allowed and is an attempt to stand. Others don't. Bob and Camron are two respected examples from each side.
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Old Wed Jun 25, 2014, 03:50pm
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Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
Travel.

The only action permitted when lying on the floor it to sit up. And I have never seen a person "sit up" from their belly (or any other position) to their knees as that would be getting up, not sitting up. Sitting up would be from their back to their butt.

Rising to the knees is a partial attempt to stand. Basically, the rule doesn't allow them to get to a more advantageous position aside from the specific one listed (sitting up).

Plus, if they had been on their back, and got to that position, you'd have had a rollover first....traveling long before they got to the knees.
I agree on the issue of the player on his back going to his knees. That's a travel.

A player on his stomach going to his knees, however, has not done anything prohibited by rule, IMO. I don't see it as an attempt to stand.
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Old Wed Jun 25, 2014, 04:05pm
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Let's Go To The Videotape ...

Traveling is moving a foot or feet in any direction in excess of prescribed limits
while holding the ball. The limits on foot movements are as follows:
A player holding the ball:
b. After gaining control while on the floor and touching with other than hand
or foot, may not attempt to get up or stand.
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Old Wed Jun 25, 2014, 07:06pm
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How 'bout this one?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Traveling is moving a foot or feet in any direction in excess of prescribed limits
while holding the ball. The limits on foot movements are as follows:
A player holding the ball:
b. After gaining control while on the floor and touching with other than hand
or foot, may not attempt to get up or stand.
This may not be akin to the OP, but might be a good one to analyze:
Traveling or Not Did She Roll Over or Not - YouTube

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Last edited by APG; Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 09:03pm. Reason: embed
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Old Wed Jun 25, 2014, 10:23pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
I agree on the issue of the player on his back going to his knees. That's a travel.

A player on his stomach going to his knees, however, has not done anything prohibited by rule, IMO. I don't see it as an attempt to stand.
Not even an attempt to "get up"? What then is the reason for the statement (in either the case book or rule book, I don't remember where) about a player who is on their back being allowed to sit with no mention of other upward motions. Seems like they are allowing for that one action to be legal but not anything else.
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Old Wed Jun 25, 2014, 10:24pm
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Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
This may not be akin to the OP, but might be a good one to analyze:
I do not have a travel on that one. When she got the ball, she was as much on her butt as her side and only stabilized herself into the most natural position.
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Last edited by Camron Rust; Thu Jun 26, 2014 at 12:22am.
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Old Wed Jun 25, 2014, 10:44pm
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Travel in OP.
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Old Wed Jun 25, 2014, 10:58pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
This may not be akin to the OP, but might be a good one to analyze
Travel in the OP; no travel on your play Freddo.
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