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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 25, 2014, 11:40pm
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Cheek To Cheek ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
No travel on your play Freddo.
She didn't move her pivot cheek.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 25, 2014, 11:48pm
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Travelin' Man ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
I do not have a travel on that one. When she got the ball, she was as much on her butt as her side and only stabilized herself into the most natural position.
I can agree with your call, but not with your reasoning. "Stabilized herself into the most natural position" is neither part of the rule, nor is it part of the interpretation. How about it's not a travel because she didn't roll over, nor did she attempt to get up. She did a perfectly legal maneuver, sitting straight up after gaining control of the ball while flat on her back.

4.44.5 SITUATION B: A1 dives for a loose ball and slides after gaining control.
A1 is in a position either on his/her back or stomach. What can A1 do without
violating? RULING: A1 may pass, shoot, start a dribble or call a time-out. Once
A1 has the ball and is no longer sliding, he/she may not roll over. If flat on his/her
back, A1 may sit up without violating. Any attempt to get to the feet is traveling
unless A1 is dribbling. It is also traveling if A1 puts the ball on the floor, then rises
and is first to touch the ball. (4-44-5b)

4.44.5 SITUATION D: A1 secures possession of the ball with one knee in contact
with the floor. May A1 assume a standing position without committing a traveling
violation? RULING: It depends on what A1 does. If A1 attempts to stand up
while holding the ball, a traveling violation occurs. However, if A1 starts a dribble
and then rises, no violation has occurred. Also, A1 could pass, try for goal or call
a time-out from that position.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 11:56pm.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 26, 2014, 12:24am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
I can agree with your call, but not with your reasoning. "Stabilized herself into the most natural position" is neither part of the rule, nor is it part of the interpretation. How about it's not a travel because she didn't roll over, nor did she attempt to get up. She did a perfectly legal maneuver, sitting straight up after gaining control of the ball while flat on her back.
Actually, I believe it is part of the rule too, or at least it is in line with NFHS interpretation regarding diving and tumbling/sliding in the process of securing a loose ball. A player gets to come to rest in a stable position, not propped up in an awkward one.
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Old Thu Jun 26, 2014, 06:06am
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He Asked Politely ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
A player gets to come to rest in a stable position, not propped up in an awkward one.
Citation please?
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 26, 2014, 09:29am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
Not even an attempt to "get up"? What then is the reason for the statement (in either the case book or rule book, I don't remember where) about a player who is on their back being allowed to sit with no mention of other upward motions. Seems like they are allowing for that one action to be legal but not anything else.
I see it differently, as what is not forbidden is allowed. I don't see going to the knee from the stomach as an "attempt to get up."

I could be wrong, but I see "get up" and "stand" here as the same thing. So, standing is illegal, and attempting to stand is illegal. Rolling over is illegal. Sliding after the inertia ceases is illegal.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 26, 2014, 01:02pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
I see it differently, as what is not forbidden is allowed. I don't see going to the knee from the stomach as an "attempt to get up."

I could be wrong, but I see "get up" and "stand" here as the same thing. So, standing is illegal, and attempting to stand is illegal. Rolling over is illegal. Sliding after the inertia ceases is illegal.
Depends on how you want to look at it. Player is not allowed to make any "attempt to get up." If you are on your back, the first step is to sit up. This is specifically allowed. If you are on your stomach, you rise up to your knees. This is not mentioned as being legal, so it falls under the blanket of being illegal.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 26, 2014, 01:15pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
Depends on how you want to look at it. Player is not allowed to make any "attempt to get up." If you are on your back, the first step is to sit up. This is specifically allowed. If you are on your stomach, you rise up to your knees. This is not mentioned as being legal, so it falls under the blanket of being illegal.
It really depends on how you define "attempt to get up." I see it as equal to "attempt to stand," and in that light can't see how it applies to going from the stomach to the knee. Otherwise a player who controls the ball while on their stomach is restricted to requested a timeout.
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Old Thu Jun 26, 2014, 01:19pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
It really depends on how you define "attempt to get up." I see it as equal to "attempt to stand," and in that light can't see how it applies to going from the stomach to the knee. Otherwise a player who controls the ball while on their stomach is restricted to requested a timeout.
You can pass the ball, sorta, from your stomach.
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Old Thu Jun 26, 2014, 01:21pm
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Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
You can pass the ball, sorta, from your stomach.
It can squirt out, or you allow a teammate to grab it. It won't be much of a pass, though.
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Old Thu Jun 26, 2014, 01:25pm
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Originally Posted by Adam View Post
It can squirt out, or you allow a teammate to grab it. It won't be much of a pass, though.
Personally, I would allow the player to push up from the floor with one hand while passing the ball with the other. I would not allow him to rise straight up on his knees and then look for a place to pass. jmo
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Old Thu Jun 26, 2014, 02:08pm
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Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
Personally, I would allow the player to push up from the floor with one hand while passing the ball with the other. I would not allow him to rise straight up on his knees and then look for a place to pass. jmo
Why are they different?
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Old Thu Jun 26, 2014, 02:21pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
It really depends on how you define "attempt to get up." I see it as equal to "attempt to stand," and in that light can't see how it applies to going from the stomach to the knee. Otherwise a player who controls the ball while on their stomach is restricted to requested a timeout.
I don't have it handy, but is the rule book different from the case book:

4.44.5 SITUATION B: A1 dives for a loose ball and slides after gaining control.
A1 is in a position either on his/her back or stomach. What can A1 do without
violating? RULING: A1 may pass, shoot, start a dribble or call a time-out. Once
A1 has the ball and is no longer sliding, he/she may not roll over. If flat on his/her
back, A1 may sit up without violating. Any attempt to get to the feet is traveling
unless A1 is dribbling. It is also traveling if A1 puts the ball on the floor, then rises
and is first to touch the ball. (4-44-5b)


Or, does the different wording matter?

For me, I think I need to see a foot flat (approximately) on the floor to view this as an attempt to (insert phrase here)
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 26, 2014, 03:02pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
I don't have it handy, but is the rule book different from the case book:

4.44.5 SITUATION B: A1 dives for a loose ball and slides after gaining control.
A1 is in a position either on his/her back or stomach. What can A1 do without
violating
? RULING: A1 may pass, shoot, start a dribble or call a time-out. Once
A1 has the ball and is no longer sliding, he/she may not roll over. If flat on his/her
back, A1 may sit up without violating.
Any attempt to get to the feet is traveling
unless A1 is dribbling. It is also traveling if A1 puts the ball on the floor, then rises
and is first to touch the ball. (4-44-5b)


Or, does the different wording matter?

For me, I think I need to see a foot flat (approximately) on the floor to view this as an attempt to (insert phrase here)
I think the text I've highlighted in blue is listing what is allowed since the question being as is what can A1 do. The red text that you highlighted is saying that anything else (not in the list of what is allowed) IS defined as an attempt to get up, even if it isn't complete or successful, and should be a violation.
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Last edited by Camron Rust; Thu Jun 26, 2014 at 03:05pm.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 26, 2014, 03:21pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
Why are they different?
If it's all at the same time, I see that this qualifies the action as part of the pass, which proves that the player was not attempting to get up.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 26, 2014, 03:38pm
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Options ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
... a player who controls the ball while on their stomach is restricted to requested a timeout.
Pass? Shoot? Start a dribble?
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