The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #16 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 25, 2014, 11:40pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 16,495
Cheek To Cheek ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
No travel on your play Freddo.
She didn't move her pivot cheek.
__________________
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 25, 2014, 11:48pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 16,495
Travelin' Man ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
I do not have a travel on that one. When she got the ball, she was as much on her butt as her side and only stabilized herself into the most natural position.
I can agree with your call, but not with your reasoning. "Stabilized herself into the most natural position" is neither part of the rule, nor is it part of the interpretation. How about it's not a travel because she didn't roll over, nor did she attempt to get up. She did a perfectly legal maneuver, sitting straight up after gaining control of the ball while flat on her back.

4.44.5 SITUATION B: A1 dives for a loose ball and slides after gaining control.
A1 is in a position either on his/her back or stomach. What can A1 do without
violating? RULING: A1 may pass, shoot, start a dribble or call a time-out. Once
A1 has the ball and is no longer sliding, he/she may not roll over. If flat on his/her
back, A1 may sit up without violating. Any attempt to get to the feet is traveling
unless A1 is dribbling. It is also traveling if A1 puts the ball on the floor, then rises
and is first to touch the ball. (4-44-5b)

4.44.5 SITUATION D: A1 secures possession of the ball with one knee in contact
with the floor. May A1 assume a standing position without committing a traveling
violation? RULING: It depends on what A1 does. If A1 attempts to stand up
while holding the ball, a traveling violation occurs. However, if A1 starts a dribble
and then rises, no violation has occurred. Also, A1 could pass, try for goal or call
a time-out from that position.
__________________
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 11:56pm.
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 26, 2014, 12:24am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 11,389
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
I can agree with your call, but not with your reasoning. "Stabilized herself into the most natural position" is neither part of the rule, nor is it part of the interpretation. How about it's not a travel because she didn't roll over, nor did she attempt to get up. She did a perfectly legal maneuver, sitting straight up after gaining control of the ball while flat on her back.
Actually, I believe it is part of the rule too, or at least it is in line with NFHS interpretation regarding diving and tumbling/sliding in the process of securing a loose ball. A player gets to come to rest in a stable position, not propped up in an awkward one.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 26, 2014, 06:06am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 16,495
He Asked Politely ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
A player gets to come to rest in a stable position, not propped up in an awkward one.
Citation please?
__________________
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 26, 2014, 09:29am
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
Not even an attempt to "get up"? What then is the reason for the statement (in either the case book or rule book, I don't remember where) about a player who is on their back being allowed to sit with no mention of other upward motions. Seems like they are allowing for that one action to be legal but not anything else.
I see it differently, as what is not forbidden is allowed. I don't see going to the knee from the stomach as an "attempt to get up."

I could be wrong, but I see "get up" and "stand" here as the same thing. So, standing is illegal, and attempting to stand is illegal. Rolling over is illegal. Sliding after the inertia ceases is illegal.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #21 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 26, 2014, 01:02pm
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
I see it differently, as what is not forbidden is allowed. I don't see going to the knee from the stomach as an "attempt to get up."

I could be wrong, but I see "get up" and "stand" here as the same thing. So, standing is illegal, and attempting to stand is illegal. Rolling over is illegal. Sliding after the inertia ceases is illegal.
Depends on how you want to look at it. Player is not allowed to make any "attempt to get up." If you are on your back, the first step is to sit up. This is specifically allowed. If you are on your stomach, you rise up to your knees. This is not mentioned as being legal, so it falls under the blanket of being illegal.
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
  #22 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 26, 2014, 01:15pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
Depends on how you want to look at it. Player is not allowed to make any "attempt to get up." If you are on your back, the first step is to sit up. This is specifically allowed. If you are on your stomach, you rise up to your knees. This is not mentioned as being legal, so it falls under the blanket of being illegal.
It really depends on how you define "attempt to get up." I see it as equal to "attempt to stand," and in that light can't see how it applies to going from the stomach to the knee. Otherwise a player who controls the ball while on their stomach is restricted to requested a timeout.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 26, 2014, 01:19pm
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
It really depends on how you define "attempt to get up." I see it as equal to "attempt to stand," and in that light can't see how it applies to going from the stomach to the knee. Otherwise a player who controls the ball while on their stomach is restricted to requested a timeout.
You can pass the ball, sorta, from your stomach.
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
  #24 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 26, 2014, 01:21pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
You can pass the ball, sorta, from your stomach.
It can squirt out, or you allow a teammate to grab it. It won't be much of a pass, though.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 26, 2014, 01:25pm
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
It can squirt out, or you allow a teammate to grab it. It won't be much of a pass, though.
Personally, I would allow the player to push up from the floor with one hand while passing the ball with the other. I would not allow him to rise straight up on his knees and then look for a place to pass. jmo
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
  #26 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 26, 2014, 02:08pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
Personally, I would allow the player to push up from the floor with one hand while passing the ball with the other. I would not allow him to rise straight up on his knees and then look for a place to pass. jmo
Why are they different?
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #27 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 26, 2014, 02:21pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 16,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
It really depends on how you define "attempt to get up." I see it as equal to "attempt to stand," and in that light can't see how it applies to going from the stomach to the knee. Otherwise a player who controls the ball while on their stomach is restricted to requested a timeout.
I don't have it handy, but is the rule book different from the case book:

4.44.5 SITUATION B: A1 dives for a loose ball and slides after gaining control.
A1 is in a position either on his/her back or stomach. What can A1 do without
violating? RULING: A1 may pass, shoot, start a dribble or call a time-out. Once
A1 has the ball and is no longer sliding, he/she may not roll over. If flat on his/her
back, A1 may sit up without violating. Any attempt to get to the feet is traveling
unless A1 is dribbling. It is also traveling if A1 puts the ball on the floor, then rises
and is first to touch the ball. (4-44-5b)


Or, does the different wording matter?

For me, I think I need to see a foot flat (approximately) on the floor to view this as an attempt to (insert phrase here)
Reply With Quote
  #28 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 26, 2014, 03:02pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 11,389
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
I don't have it handy, but is the rule book different from the case book:

4.44.5 SITUATION B: A1 dives for a loose ball and slides after gaining control.
A1 is in a position either on his/her back or stomach. What can A1 do without
violating
? RULING: A1 may pass, shoot, start a dribble or call a time-out. Once
A1 has the ball and is no longer sliding, he/she may not roll over. If flat on his/her
back, A1 may sit up without violating.
Any attempt to get to the feet is traveling
unless A1 is dribbling. It is also traveling if A1 puts the ball on the floor, then rises
and is first to touch the ball. (4-44-5b)


Or, does the different wording matter?

For me, I think I need to see a foot flat (approximately) on the floor to view this as an attempt to (insert phrase here)
I think the text I've highlighted in blue is listing what is allowed since the question being as is what can A1 do. The red text that you highlighted is saying that anything else (not in the list of what is allowed) IS defined as an attempt to get up, even if it isn't complete or successful, and should be a violation.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com

Last edited by Camron Rust; Thu Jun 26, 2014 at 03:05pm.
Reply With Quote
  #29 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 26, 2014, 03:21pm
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
Why are they different?
If it's all at the same time, I see that this qualifies the action as part of the pass, which proves that the player was not attempting to get up.
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
  #30 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 26, 2014, 03:38pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 16,495
Options ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
... a player who controls the ball while on their stomach is restricted to requested a timeout.
Pass? Shoot? Start a dribble?
__________________
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
BI/GT Refresher Please? rekent Basketball 7 Mon Mar 04, 2013 07:45am
Deadspin: It's not traveling unless Duke says it's traveling Rich Basketball 1 Mon Feb 23, 2009 09:21pm
Refresher tjones1 Basketball 0 Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:40am
3-man Refresher tjones1 Basketball 4 Sun Nov 14, 2004 11:15pm
refresher on GT Adam Basketball 2 Sun Jul 11, 2004 11:27pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:14pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1