What Are You Gonna Do?

[Remington]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

frezer11:

B1 is not going to be there because "F-bombs" are FTFs in my game.

MTD, Sr.

MTD, Sr. ~ In the scenerio above, where a player looks at a player (or official/coach) and says "F____ You" towards them I would also have a FTF, but do you actually differentiate between profane words and penalize differently whether it is an F-bomb (FTF) or other profane term (TF)? Many times I have had a player have a turnover and say "ahh F____" and I give them a TF. I can't imagine trying to justify my differentiation of words/terms other than the way it is stated.

[DRJ1960]

Originally Posted by rich

i'd do nothing, as long as the player isn't talking to / at the shooter.

+1

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BatteryPowered

My apologies...guess I woke up a tad bit cranky this morning. I definetly could have stated that more diplomatically.

If the player doesn't come over I am doing nothing because I cannot make him move. You obviously have to be there and see the events leading up to the T and how the game has been going. If the T was unsporting and emotions are obviously high I just consider this "preventative officiating". I was always taught that 95% of the time, trouble starts when the ball stops. If you can do something to difuse the situation why would you not try? I understand there is no basis in the rules for making him move but consider the possibilities of how far south things could go in certian situations if you do nothing.

I'm not saying do nothing. I'm saying I'm not goint to tell him he has to move. You're right, I'd have to be there, and if I got the sense he was about to do something stupid, I'd be watching like a hawk.

Trouble also comes when we try to enforce non-existent rules for "game management" purposes. Chances are, this kid won't last much longer in the game anyway if he's being that much of a d-bag.

[OKREF]

It really doesn't matter if he is in the view of the shooter. There are points along the 3 point line above the free throw line where one would be in eyesight of the shooter. If they aren't disconcerting, then they aren't breaking any rule.

[JRutledge]

Nothing!!!

Peace

[Welpe]

A related thought:

Sometimes good game management is knowing when to leave something alone.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Remington

MTD, Sr. ~ In the scenerio above, where a player looks at a player (or official/coach) and says "F____ You" towards them I would also have a FTF, but do you actually differentiate between profane words and penalize differently whether it is an F-bomb (FTF) or other profane term (TF)? Many times I have had a player have a turnover and say "ahh F____" and I give them a TF. I can't imagine trying to justify my differentiation of words/terms other than the way it is stated.

Let me put it this way. My late father was a carpenter for 53 years and I am a retired structural design engineer and worked my way through engineering school as a construction worker. Meaning if you have straight hair, I can verbally curl it; if you have curly hair I can verbally straighten it, because I have been on construction sites all of my life and you get us to the crude language that is sometimes heard on construction sites. You get my drift.

That said, the F-word is an automatic FTF when I am calling JrHS, HS, college, and youth basketball games. That has been my position for the 43 years that I have officiated basketball and the soon to be 22 years of umpiring HS and youth baseball and fast pitch softball.

MTD, Sr.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Welpe

A related thought:

Sometimes good game management is knowing when to leave something alone.

Don't be a dumpster diver?

[frezer11]

I really understand both points of view, but it's very surprising to me how many people here would do nothing simply because that little book doesn't tell us to. When/if that free throw shooter sinks the second one, and turns around and says "You got nothin on me," or some other snarky remark to the kid right behind him, do we let that go? Clearly it's his own fault, so thats fine, but is that not at least to some small degree, our own fault for doing NOTHING to de-escalate the situation? Why not try to call him over as was previously suggested? If he doesn't move, then tough, nothing we can do. For the record, I'm not implying we have to move him, I'm saying why not try to move him?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by frezer11

I really understand both points of view, but it's very surprising to me how many people here would do nothing simply because that little book doesn't tell us to. When/if that free throw shooter sinks the second one, and turns around and says "You got nothin on me," or some other snarky remark to the kid right behind him, do we let that go? Clearly it's his own fault, so thats fine, but is that not at least to some small degree, our own fault for doing NOTHING to de-escalate the situation? Why not try to call him over as was previously suggested? If he doesn't move, then tough, nothing we can do. For the record, I'm not implying we have to move him, I'm saying why not try to move him?

Well it is not illegal to stand behind a shooter. And because it is a rivalry game does not change the situation either unless something is said by the players standing behind the FT shooter. And even then it is not illegal in itself to speak. Yes, I would pay attention, but that is all there is to do. We do not have a rule situation to move the player arbitrarily. And if a coach told us that he we have no right, he/she would be right. If the rules makers want the player to not stand there, then they will make a rule that disallows that kind of action. But we should be careful as to doing what is not supported by rule at all.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by frezer11

I really understand both points of view, but it's very surprising to me how many people here would do nothing simply because that little book doesn't tell us to. When/if that free throw shooter sinks the second one, and turns around and says "You got nothin on me," or some other snarky remark to the kid right behind him, do we let that go? Clearly it's his own fault, so thats fine, but is that not at least to some small degree, our own fault for doing NOTHING to de-escalate the situation? Why not try to call him over as was previously suggested? If he doesn't move, then tough, nothing we can do. For the record, I'm not implying we have to move him, I'm saying why not try to move him?

Honestly, I have no problem if you want to interject yourself and ask the kid to come over; but if the shooter wants to pop off, he's going to do it anyway and I won't lose any sleep over another T here.

I just don't see any reason to do it. I promise I'll be watching both closely, but if he's that much of a hothead, he's already on my radar anyway and I may be talking to him before he even got to the arc.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by frezer11

I really understand both points of view, but it's very surprising to me how many people here would do nothing simply because that little book doesn't tell us to.

This has NOTHING to do with that. You seem to assume that directly behind the shooter is some magical intimidation spot that means some snarkiness is about to happen.

I have NEVER (not once... not ever) had a player go there for some sort of message - nor had someone standing there that caused the shooter to react. Why in the world would a shooter make his fouls, and turn around to remark to an opposing player who happened to be standing where you describe.

You might as well be asking, "During a technical foul, a player on the opposing team happens to be standing near the home team's logo. What do you do?" Again... I do NOTHING. It's irrelevant. Right behind the shooter is irrelevant.

You are not just looking for boogers here... you're inventing them.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If the rules makers want the player to not stand there, then they will make a rule that disallows that kind of action. But we should be careful as to doing what is not supported by rule at all.

This exactly.

I'm not gonna prevent the kid from standing there but if I am C I would be right there, probably 3 feet from the guy.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I have NEVER (not once... not ever) had a player go there for some sort of message - .

... which means that when they do go there, it will be for "some sort of message" -- and the officials involved should have their antennae up.

I'm a proponent of addressing small problems before they become bigger problems.

Any of the above solutions (moving him, talking to him, letting him stay there) could work depending on the officials' read of the game and the players involved.