Airborne Shooter purposely drops ball

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

This statement makes no sense at all. His intent is to avoid a travelling violation so he drops the ball, which is a travelling violation. If his intent is to avoid a travelling violation then he drops the ball in hopes that a teammate will come retrieve it.

Hope that a teammate will retrieve does not, for me, define a pass.

You said it yourself. He dropped the ball. This is a travelling violation.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Hope that a teammate will retrieve does not, for me, define a pass.

You said it yourself. He dropped the ball. This is a travelling violation.

You said he dropped it to avoid a travelling violation, which means he is passing the ball.

You didn't say he pushed, batted, or threw the ball to the ground.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Hope that a teammate will retrieve does not, for me, define a pass.

You said it yourself. He dropped the ball. This is a travelling violation.

I don't care how you twist your way into it, dropping does not equal throwing, pushing, or batting.

I have never seen a player drop the ball and not obviously expect his teammate to come get it. The fact is, there is no way to know what he's trying to do when he drops it. So, I'm going to assume it's a pass until something happens to tell me otherwise (such as him being the first to touch it after he releases the ball).

[MD Longhorn]

Allowing gravity to force the ball down is the opposite of forcing it down one's self. This is NOT a dribble. Period.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Allowing gravity to force the ball down is the opposite of forcing it down one's self. This is NOT a dribble. Period.

So, let me get this straight.

I can hold the ball, drop it. Catch it after the bounce. Drop it again. Catch it again. Drop it again. Catch it again. And, since dropping it is not a dribble, it is not a dribble. Wow....this could be a very useful tactic!!!

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I can hold the ball, drop it. Catch it after the bounce. Drop it again. Catch it again. Drop it again. Catch it again. And, since dropping it is not a dribble, it is not a dribble.

Good point, great extreme example, I love pushing the limits of various rules, but I will still wait to see what happens next, and will only call the violation if he is the first to touch.

Now? Is a drop the same as a fumble? Can we read minds, and determine intent?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

So, let me get this straight.

I can hold the ball, drop it. Catch it after the bounce. Drop it again. Catch it again. Drop it again. Catch it again. And, since dropping it is not a dribble, it is not a dribble. Wow....this could be a very useful tactic!!!

You argue like this is political debate... read words, interpret them the way you want, then argue with that interpretation even if you know your interpretation is not what the other person meant.

That sort of argument is a waste of everyone's time and effort. This is not politics, this is not a debate. It's an officiating discussion board, where we're all trying to get better.
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I did not say dropping the ball and catching it is not a dribble. I said "this" - the situation we're talking about (well, the situation we WERE talking about until you decided to insert a completely different scenario in its place and apply my statement to it). In the situation we're talking about, dropping the ball and not picking it up is not a dribble. You tried to imply that it was because Gravity is a Force, and you saw the word force in the rule. (Frankly ... another example of what you did to my post)

If you're simply here to out-debate us or win an argument, I'm not interested. If you're interested in discussing what rules apply here, please do so.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

You argue like this is political debate... read words, interpret them the way you want, then argue with that interpretation even if you know your interpretation is not what the other person meant.

That sort of argument is a waste of everyone's time and effort. This is not politics, this is not a debate. It's an officiating discussion board, where we're all trying to get better.
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I did not say dropping the ball and catching it is not a dribble. I said "this" - the situation we're talking about (well, the situation we WERE talking about until you decided to insert a completely different scenario in its place and apply my statement to it). In the situation we're talking about, dropping the ball and not picking it up is not a dribble. You tried to imply that it was because Gravity is a Force, and you saw the word force in the rule. (Frankly ... another example of what you did to my post)

If you're simply here to out-debate us or win an argument, I'm not interested. If you're interested in discussing what rules apply here, please do so.

Then apply the rules as they are written, not as you invent new words to put in so it will fit what you want it to be. Quit looking for ways to weasel out of blowing the whistle.

A dribble starts when it leaves the hands. There is no part of the definition that suggests otherwise. A pass also starts when it leaves the hands. The difference is only in the judgement in whether it is going to the floor or to another player.

My example was merely offered to expose the fallacy in the points being made about the play in question.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Then apply the rules as they are written, not as you invent new words to put in so it will fit what you want it to be. Quit looking for ways to weasel out of blowing the whistle.

A dribble starts when it leaves the hands. There is no part of the definition that suggests otherwise. A pass also starts when it leaves the hands. The difference is only in the judgement in whether it is going to the floor or to another player.

My example was merely offered to expose the fallacy in the points being made about the play in question.

That's not what it says. It says it starts when it's thrown or pushed to the floor. Dropping is neither throwing nor pushing. If we're going to start parsing definitions, I think we need to start there.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The difference is only in the judgement in whether it is going to the floor or to another player.

A bounce pass does both.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Adam

I don't care how you twist your way into it, dropping does not equal throwing, pushing, or batting.

I have never seen a player drop the ball and not obviously expect his teammate to come get it. The fact is, there is no way to know what he's trying to do when he drops it. So, I'm going to assume it's a pass until something happens to tell me otherwise (such as him being the first to touch it after he releases the ball).

In fact, the act is usually followed by A1 trying to "box out" defenders from getting the ball.