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Old Tue Nov 30, 2010, 09:52am
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Fouling airborne shooter when ball is dead... ?

Per 4-19-1: A personal foul also includes contact by or on an airborne shooter when the ball is dead.

So, if the airborne shooter is considered to be in the act of shooting and has released (or tapped) the ball for a try but has not returned to the floor, could someone please give me an example of a foul occuring on an airborne shooter when the ball is dead ?

Another foul elsewhere ?
But, if the ball is dead then why and how do points count if the airborne shooter's try goes in the goal ?
That seems to conflict with the pedestrian definition of "dead".

I feel the answer is going to be a "Duh... of course" or "I'll know it when I see it" type answer, but right now it is eluding me.

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Old Tue Nov 30, 2010, 09:53am
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A dunk. Or any shot which goes through the basket prior to the shooter landing.
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Old Tue Nov 30, 2010, 10:03am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
A dunk. Or any shot which goes through the basket prior to the shooter landing.
Yeah, I was thinking dunk.
Specifically, I was thinking about a dunk with traffic under the basket which leaves the shooter hanging on the rim to prevent injury to himself... and while he is hanging he is fouled.
In this new scenario, would you call a shooting foul based on the definition that the shooter has yet to return to the floor, albeit hanging on rim for a second or two after the made basket?

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Old Tue Nov 30, 2010, 10:08am
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Originally Posted by PSidbury View Post
Yeah, I was thinking dunk.
Specifically, I was thinking about a dunk with traffic under the basket which leaves the shooter hanging on the rim to prevent injury to himself... and while he is hanging he is fouled.
In this new scenario, would you call a shooting foul based on the definition that the shooter has yet to return to the floor, albeit hanging on rim for a second or two after the made basket?

Thanks,
Paul
Hanging isn't necessary. Just like any airborne shooter, he has to be allowed to land. If the defense undercuts him, it's a shooting foul. I've had a defender come in and intentionally foul the "dunker" before he landed.

And yes, assuming the hanging was legitimate and not a technical foul.

That brings an interesting thought to mind; the possibility of a T for hanging on the rim followed by a shooting foul on the defense for undercutting him as he tries to land.

It would be the rare case (in NFHS rules) where the T shots would be followed by the shot for the shooting foul.
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Old Tue Nov 30, 2010, 11:34am
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Although I've never seen it called, there could be an elbow violation on the offense while the try is in the air. This causes the ball to become dead, however, the shooter has not yet returned to the floor.
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Old Tue Nov 30, 2010, 01:19pm
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
That brings an interesting thought to mind; the possibility of a T for hanging on the rim followed by a shooting foul on the defense for undercutting him as he tries to land.

It would be the rare case (in NFHS rules) where the T shots would be followed by the shot for the shooting foul.
Interesting case. I'd propose that any contact foul on a shooter that occurs after the shooter has after sucessfully dunked the ball and has hung on the rim long enough to get a T will likely be intentional or flagrant.
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Old Tue Nov 30, 2010, 01:31pm
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Although I've never seen it called, there could be an elbow violation on the offense while the try is in the air. This causes the ball to become dead, however, the shooter has not yet returned to the floor.
I think this is one of the questions I missed on the exam. Would you, or anyone, be so kinds as to cite where this is covered in the rule book?
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Old Tue Nov 30, 2010, 01:33pm
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Penalty under 9-13
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Old Tue Nov 30, 2010, 01:36pm
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Penalty under 9-13
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Old Tue Nov 30, 2010, 01:36pm
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Originally Posted by VaTerp View Post
I think this is one of the questions I missed on the exam. Would you, or anyone, be so kinds as to cite where this is covered in the rule book?
The elbow violation is 9-13. The provision keeping the ball alive after a foul but during a try is 6-7 EXCEPTION.

There is no case play exactly like the one Scrapper mentions, afaik.
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Old Tue Nov 30, 2010, 01:47pm
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Originally Posted by mbyron View Post
The elbow violation is 9-13. The provision keeping the ball alive after a foul but during a try is 6-7 EXCEPTION.

There is no case play exactly like the one Scrapper mentions, afaik.
That's actually what I was looking for. Rules book is packed in the bag in the car so don't have a chance to look at it right now. Thanks,
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Old Tue Nov 30, 2010, 01:50pm
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Originally Posted by PSidbury View Post
Per 4-19-1: A personal foul also includes contact by or on an airborne shooter when the ball is dead.

So, if the airborne shooter is considered to be in the act of shooting and has released (or tapped) the ball for a try but has not returned to the floor, could someone please give me an example of a foul occuring on an airborne shooter when the ball is dead ?

Another foul elsewhere ?
But, if the ball is dead then why and how do points count if the airborne shooter's try goes in the goal ?
That seems to conflict with the pedestrian definition of "dead".

I feel the answer is going to be a "Duh... of course" or "I'll know it when I see it" type answer, but right now it is eluding me.

Thanks,
Paul


A1 jumps and tips the ball toward Team A's basket. While A1 is still airborne, B1 makes contact with the ball while the ball is in the cylinder, immediately after B1 touches the ball and before A1 returns to the floor, B2 fouls A1 on his arm.

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Old Tue Nov 30, 2010, 01:53pm
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9.13.1 The ball has been released on a field goal try or tap by A1 towards A's basket. A2 excessively swings arms or elbows without contacting an opponent. The ball goes through the basket.
RULING: The official will sound the whistle immediately for a violation. The ball is dead, the goal is not scored.
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Old Tue Nov 30, 2010, 03:54pm
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Originally Posted by tref View Post
9.13.1 The ball has been released on a field goal try or tap by A1 towards A's basket. A2 excessively swings arms or elbows without contacting an opponent. The ball goes through the basket.
RULING: The official will sound the whistle immediately for a violation. The ball is dead, the goal is not scored.
The question I was referring to was something to the effect of:

B2 excessively swings elbows after A1 has released the ball on a field goal try. The ball becomes dead immediately. True or False.

I answered False but did not find the exact rules citation.
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Old Tue Nov 30, 2010, 04:29pm
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Unless something has changed, I believe that caseplay explains it well.

Ohh B2? Count the bucket & A's ball at the spot nearest the violation.
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Last edited by tref; Tue Nov 30, 2010 at 04:59pm.
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