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Old Mon Oct 21, 2013, 08:47pm
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Airborne Shooter purposely drops ball

Airborne shooter thinking shot will be blocked, purposely drops the ball while at the height of his jump without attempting a shooting motion.

Loose Ball or Double Dribble? Any Why?
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Old Mon Oct 21, 2013, 09:11pm
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Generally a travel. Once the pivot is lifted, the ball must be released on a pass or a try. 4-44-3,4

By definition, a player cannot pass to himself. 4-31-1

He's airborne, but not a shooter unless he releases the ball for a try.
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Old Mon Oct 21, 2013, 09:23pm
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I'm not calling anything unless he's the first to touch it after he "passes" it.
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Last edited by Adam; Tue Oct 22, 2013 at 07:32am. Reason: formatting
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Old Mon Oct 21, 2013, 09:41pm
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Travel. Even think there is a case play about this very thing.
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Old Mon Oct 21, 2013, 09:51pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OKREF View Post
Travel. Even think there is a case play about this very thing.
4.44.3B

I agree with Adam that I won't call anything unless s/he is the first to touch the ball.
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Old Mon Oct 21, 2013, 10:46pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
4.44.3B

I agree with Adam that I won't call anything unless s/he is the first to touch the ball.
I agree. Not an automatic whistle. He must touch the ball first.
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Old Tue Oct 22, 2013, 06:10am
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Who You Gonna Call ???



The shooter can retrieve his or her own airball, if the referee considers it to be a shot attempt. The release ends team control. It is not a violation for that player to start another dribble at that point. When an airborne player keeps control of an attempted shot that is blocked and is unable to release the ball and returns to the floor with it, that player has not traveled; it is a held ball. If, in this situation, the shooter loses control of the ball because of the block, then this is simply a blocked shot and play continues. If, in this situation, the defender simply touches the ball, and the airborne shooter returns to the floor holding the ball, it’s a traveling violation. When an airborne player tries for goal, sees that the try will be blocked, purposely drops the ball, and picks up the ball after it hits the floor, that player has traveled by starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Oct 22, 2013 at 06:24am.
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Old Tue Oct 22, 2013, 08:19am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
When an airborne player tries for goal, sees that the try will be blocked, purposely drops the ball, and picks up the ball after it hits the floor, that player has traveled by starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor.
As stated by others... dropping the ball is not yet a travel. Dropping it and then being the first to touch it is travelling.
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Old Tue Oct 22, 2013, 10:00am
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Yep. Dropping the ball in that situation effectively turns the play into a pass. There’s no violation unless A1 is the first to touch the ball.
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Old Tue Oct 22, 2013, 07:29pm
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If no one eventually touches it, the dropping the ball actually was the start of another dribble and that was the point of the violation....not the subsequent touch. However, when it is such that it may be a pass or may be a dribble, we traditionally wait until the next touch to confirm what action it was.

In a few cases, it might be so obvious that the official would not need to wait to determine that it was released for a dribble.
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Old Tue Oct 22, 2013, 09:57pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
If no one eventually touches it, the dropping the ball actually was the start of another dribble and that was the point of the violation....not the subsequent touch. However, when it is such that it may be a pass or may be a dribble, we traditionally wait until the next touch to confirm what action it was.

In a few cases, it might be so obvious that the official would not need to wait to determine that it was released for a dribble.


The definition of a pass includes the phrase: "to another player". If there is no other player in the vicinity, and the ball is dropped straight to the floor, to me it is not a pass.
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Old Wed Oct 23, 2013, 02:01am
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Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
The definition of a pass includes the phrase: "to another player". If there is no other player in the vicinity, and the ball is dropped straight to the floor, to me it is not a pass.
My point exactly.

And the definition of a dribble is pushing the ball to the floor. It says nothing about it having to come back up. In fact, nothing about the definition of a dribble even requires that they touch it again.
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Old Wed Oct 23, 2013, 06:11am
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... And No One Is There To Catch It ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
The definition of a pass includes the phrase: "to another player". If there is no other player in the vicinity, and the ball is dropped straight to the floor, to me it is not a pass.
Devil's advocate here. Intent, or result? So a player makes a lead "pass" to a teammate who hits a screen and can't get to where he wants to be to receive the "pass"? Is it a pass?

Kind of like that tree falls in a forest question.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Oct 23, 2013 at 04:26pm. Reason: .
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Old Wed Oct 23, 2013, 09:37am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
My point exactly.

And the definition of a dribble is pushing the ball to the floor. It says nothing about it having to come back up. In fact, nothing about the definition of a dribble even requires that they touch it again.
First, the OP states the player "drops" the ball. If we're going to start picking nits here, then "drop" is not included in the definition of a dribble. Pushing, throwing, and batting are included, but not dropping.

Regardless.

Players make passes all the time to a spot where there is no teammate; often in anticipation that a teammate will retrieve the ball. If the airborne player drops the ball, 99% of the time he's going to land and stand there waiting for a teammate to retrieve the ball. That's a pass, even if the teammate takes a few seconds to get there.
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Old Wed Oct 23, 2013, 09:41am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Devil's advocate here. Intent, or result? So a player makes a lead "pass" to a teammate who hits a screen and can't get to where he wants to be to receive the "pass"? Is it a pass?
In this case, it is both. His intent is to avoid a traveling violation. He knows he can't return to the floor holding the ball, so he drops it straight to the floor. I would give the player a benefit of any small doubt, but he must at least look for a teammate and make some effort to push the ball in that direction, as opposed to dropping it straight to the floor.

If you're going to let him get away with this, you could just as easily say it was still a try.
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