The Official Forum

The Official Forum (https://forum.officiating.com/)
-   Basketball (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/)
-   -   Airborne Shooter purposely drops ball (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/96345-airborne-shooter-purposely-drops-ball.html)

ewitt Mon Oct 21, 2013 08:47pm

Airborne Shooter purposely drops ball
 
Airborne shooter thinking shot will be blocked, purposely drops the ball while at the height of his jump without attempting a shooting motion.

Loose Ball or Double Dribble? Any Why?

maven Mon Oct 21, 2013 09:11pm

Generally a travel. Once the pivot is lifted, the ball must be released on a pass or a try. 4-44-3,4

By definition, a player cannot pass to himself. 4-31-1

He's airborne, but not a shooter unless he releases the ball for a try.

Adam Mon Oct 21, 2013 09:23pm

I'm not calling anything unless he's the first to touch it after he "passes" it.

OKREF Mon Oct 21, 2013 09:41pm

Travel. Even think there is a case play about this very thing.

bob jenkins Mon Oct 21, 2013 09:51pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by OKREF (Post 908250)
Travel. Even think there is a case play about this very thing.

4.44.3B

I agree with Adam that I won't call anything unless s/he is the first to touch the ball.

OKREF Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 908251)
4.44.3B

I agree with Adam that I won't call anything unless s/he is the first to touch the ball.

I agree. Not an automatic whistle. He must touch the ball first.

BillyMac Tue Oct 22, 2013 06:10am

Who You Gonna Call ???
 
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6230/6...473e048e_m.jpg

The shooter can retrieve his or her own airball, if the referee considers it to be a shot attempt. The release ends team control. It is not a violation for that player to start another dribble at that point. When an airborne player keeps control of an attempted shot that is blocked and is unable to release the ball and returns to the floor with it, that player has not traveled; it is a held ball. If, in this situation, the shooter loses control of the ball because of the block, then this is simply a blocked shot and play continues. If, in this situation, the defender simply touches the ball, and the airborne shooter returns to the floor holding the ball, it’s a traveling violation. When an airborne player tries for goal, sees that the try will be blocked, purposely drops the ball, and picks up the ball after it hits the floor, that player has traveled by starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor.

MD Longhorn Tue Oct 22, 2013 08:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 908268)
When an airborne player tries for goal, sees that the try will be blocked, purposely drops the ball, and picks up the ball after it hits the floor, that player has traveled by starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor.

As stated by others... dropping the ball is not yet a travel. Dropping it and then being the first to touch it is travelling.

JetMetFan Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:00am

Yep. Dropping the ball in that situation effectively turns the play into a pass. There’s no violation unless A1 is the first to touch the ball.

Camron Rust Tue Oct 22, 2013 07:29pm

If no one eventually touches it, the dropping the ball actually was the start of another dribble and that was the point of the violation....not the subsequent touch. However, when it is such that it may be a pass or may be a dribble, we traditionally wait until the next touch to confirm what action it was.

In a few cases, it might be so obvious that the official would not need to wait to determine that it was released for a dribble.

just another ref Tue Oct 22, 2013 09:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 908346)
If no one eventually touches it, the dropping the ball actually was the start of another dribble and that was the point of the violation....not the subsequent touch. However, when it is such that it may be a pass or may be a dribble, we traditionally wait until the next touch to confirm what action it was.

In a few cases, it might be so obvious that the official would not need to wait to determine that it was released for a dribble.



The definition of a pass includes the phrase: "to another player". If there is no other player in the vicinity, and the ball is dropped straight to the floor, to me it is not a pass.

Camron Rust Wed Oct 23, 2013 02:01am

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 908358)
The definition of a pass includes the phrase: "to another player". If there is no other player in the vicinity, and the ball is dropped straight to the floor, to me it is not a pass.

My point exactly.

And the definition of a dribble is pushing the ball to the floor. It says nothing about it having to come back up. In fact, nothing about the definition of a dribble even requires that they touch it again.

BillyMac Wed Oct 23, 2013 06:11am

... And No One Is There To Catch It ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 908358)
The definition of a pass includes the phrase: "to another player". If there is no other player in the vicinity, and the ball is dropped straight to the floor, to me it is not a pass.

Devil's advocate here. Intent, or result? So a player makes a lead "pass" to a teammate who hits a screen and can't get to where he wants to be to receive the "pass"? Is it a pass?

Kind of like that tree falls in a forest question.

Adam Wed Oct 23, 2013 09:37am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 908366)
My point exactly.

And the definition of a dribble is pushing the ball to the floor. It says nothing about it having to come back up. In fact, nothing about the definition of a dribble even requires that they touch it again.

First, the OP states the player "drops" the ball. If we're going to start picking nits here, then "drop" is not included in the definition of a dribble. Pushing, throwing, and batting are included, but not dropping.

Regardless.

Players make passes all the time to a spot where there is no teammate; often in anticipation that a teammate will retrieve the ball. If the airborne player drops the ball, 99% of the time he's going to land and stand there waiting for a teammate to retrieve the ball. That's a pass, even if the teammate takes a few seconds to get there.

just another ref Wed Oct 23, 2013 09:41am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 908371)
Devil's advocate here. Intent, or result? So a player makes a lead "pass" to a teammate who hits a screen and can't get to where he wants to be to receive the "pass"? Is it a pass?

In this case, it is both. His intent is to avoid a traveling violation. He knows he can't return to the floor holding the ball, so he drops it straight to the floor. I would give the player a benefit of any small doubt, but he must at least look for a teammate and make some effort to push the ball in that direction, as opposed to dropping it straight to the floor.

If you're going to let him get away with this, you could just as easily say it was still a try.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:59am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1