Airborne Shooter purposely drops ball

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

If no one eventually touches it, the dropping the ball actually was the start of another dribble and that was the point of the violation....not the subsequent touch. However, when it is such that it may be a pass or may be a dribble, we traditionally wait until the next touch to confirm what action it was.

In a few cases, it might be so obvious that the official would not need to wait to determine that it was released for a dribble.

The definition of a pass includes the phrase: "to another player". If there is no other player in the vicinity, and the ball is dropped straight to the floor, to me it is not a pass.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by just another ref

The definition of a pass includes the phrase: "to another player". If there is no other player in the vicinity, and the ball is dropped straight to the floor, to me it is not a pass.

My point exactly.

And the definition of a dribble is pushing the ball to the floor. It says nothing about it having to come back up. In fact, nothing about the definition of a dribble even requires that they touch it again.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

My point exactly.

And the definition of a dribble is pushing the ball to the floor. It says nothing about it having to come back up. In fact, nothing about the definition of a dribble even requires that they touch it again.

First, the OP states the player "drops" the ball. If we're going to start picking nits here, then "drop" is not included in the definition of a dribble. Pushing, throwing, and batting are included, but not dropping.

Regardless.

Players make passes all the time to a spot where there is no teammate; often in anticipation that a teammate will retrieve the ball. If the airborne player drops the ball, 99% of the time he's going to land and stand there waiting for a teammate to retrieve the ball. That's a pass, even if the teammate takes a few seconds to get there.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by just another ref

The definition of a pass includes the phrase: "to another player". If there is no other player in the vicinity, and the ball is dropped straight to the floor, to me it is not a pass.

Devil's advocate here. Intent, or result? So a player makes a lead "pass" to a teammate who hits a screen and can't get to where he wants to be to receive the "pass"? Is it a pass?

Kind of like that tree falls in a forest question.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Devil's advocate here. Intent, or result? So a player makes a lead "pass" to a teammate who hits a screen and can't get to where he wants to be to receive the "pass"? Is it a pass?

In this case, it is both. His intent is to avoid a traveling violation. He knows he can't return to the floor holding the ball, so he drops it straight to the floor. I would give the player a benefit of any small doubt, but he must at least look for a teammate and make some effort to push the ball in that direction, as opposed to dropping it straight to the floor.

If you're going to let him get away with this, you could just as easily say it was still a try.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

If you're going to let him get away with this, you could just as easily say it was still a try.

Wow, regardless of one's opinion on whether this is a pass or dribble, calling it a try is not 'just as easy.'

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Adam

Wow, regardless of one's opinion on whether this is a pass or dribble, calling it a try is not 'just as easy.'

That was an extreme way to word it, but the bottom line is the same.

It's not going in the basket. It's not a try. If it's dropped straight to the floor, it's also not going "to another player", so it's not a pass.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

That was an extreme way to word it, but the bottom line is the same.

It's not going in the basket. It's not a try. If it's dropped straight to the floor, it's also not going "to another player", so it's not a pass.

And it wasn't pushed, batted, or thrown, so it's not a dribble.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Adam

And it wasn't pushed, batted, or thrown, so it's not a dribble.

throw: propel (something) with force through the air by a movement of the arm and hand


The release is the movement by the arm/hand. The force is supplied by gravity.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Adam

And it wasn't pushed, batted, or thrown, so it's not a dribble.

"Drop" is just a very weak throw/push.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by just another ref

In this case, it is both. His intent is to avoid a traveling violation. He knows he can't return to the floor holding the ball, so he drops it straight to the floor. I would give the player a benefit of any small doubt, but he must at least look for a teammate and make some effort to push the ball in that direction, as opposed to dropping it straight to the floor.

If you're going to let him get away with this, you could just as easily say it was still a try.

This statement makes no sense at all. His intent is to avoid a travelling violation so he drops the ball, which is a travelling violation. If his intent is to avoid a travelling violation then he drops the ball in hopes that a teammate will come retrieve it.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

This statement makes no sense at all. His intent is to avoid a travelling violation so he drops the ball, which is a travelling violation. If his intent is to avoid a travelling violation then he drops the ball in hopes that a teammate will come retrieve it.

Hope that a teammate will retrieve does not, for me, define a pass.

You said it yourself. He dropped the ball. This is a travelling violation.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Hope that a teammate will retrieve does not, for me, define a pass.

You said it yourself. He dropped the ball. This is a travelling violation.

You said he dropped it to avoid a travelling violation, which means he is passing the ball.

You didn't say he pushed, batted, or threw the ball to the ground.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Hope that a teammate will retrieve does not, for me, define a pass.

You said it yourself. He dropped the ball. This is a travelling violation.

I don't care how you twist your way into it, dropping does not equal throwing, pushing, or batting.

I have never seen a player drop the ball and not obviously expect his teammate to come get it. The fact is, there is no way to know what he's trying to do when he drops it. So, I'm going to assume it's a pass until something happens to tell me otherwise (such as him being the first to touch it after he releases the ball).

[MD Longhorn]

Allowing gravity to force the ball down is the opposite of forcing it down one's self. This is NOT a dribble. Period.