Charge???

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Duffman

It's been my experience the player that flops usually penalizes himself by being unable to compete for a rebound or remain useful in the play. There have been occasions in which the player on the floor gets tangled up in the feet of an opposing player either with or without the ball and puts the opposing player at a clear disadvantage. In those cases I'll whistle the player on the ground for a common foul, with my rational being they can't have a legal guarding or rebounding position while on the floor, and it's their own damn fault for being there.

If he got there legally, by anticipating/bracing for contact and falling in the process, and he's not moving (and thus does not require LGP) when the feet get tangled; what has he done wrong to warrant a foul?

[Duffman]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

If he got there legally, by anticipating/bracing for contact and falling in the process, and he's not moving (and thus does not require LGP) when the feet get tangled; what has he done wrong to warrant a foul?

Nothing, and that's a completely different situation than what we are talking about. We are talking about players that flop trying to draw a whistle.

If a player anticipates and braces for impact and goes to the floor legitimately as a result of the contact we have a charge, no?

From the angle we had on that video the defensive player clearly went down on his own. Had he gotten tangled up with the offensive player while still in possession of the ball, a cutting player after a pass, or a rebounder after a try I would not have hesitated in calling a personal foul on him while on the ground.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Duffman

Nothing, and that's a completely different situation than what we are talking about. We are talking about players that flop trying to draw a whistle.

If a player anticipates and braces for impact and goes to the floor legitimately as a result of the contact we have a charge, no?

From the angle we had on that video the defensive player clearly went down on his own. Had he gotten tangled up with the offensive player while still in possession of the ball, a cutting player after a pass, or a rebounder after a try I would not have hesitated in calling a personal foul on him while on the ground.

Players often start falling backwards to brace for contact, and in the process cause their own fall. Just because a player was falling without contact does not mean he is faking being fouled. That's my point.

The play I normally see:

A1 approaches B1 in transition. B1 has established LGP, and leans backwards as he expects contact. A1 pulls up, lightly brushing B1's shoulder. B1 hits the floor because he lost his own balance rather than because of A1's contact. B1 would have drawn the charge had he stayed in position, but his preemptive action prevents illegal contact.

[Duffman]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Players often start falling backwards to brace for contact, and in the process cause their own fall. Just because a player was falling without contact does not mean he is faking being fouled. That's my point.

The play I normally see:

A1 approaches B1 in transition. B1 has established LGP, and leans backwards as he expects contact. A1 pulls up, lightly brushing B1's shoulder. B1 hits the floor because he lost his own balance rather than because of A1's contact. B1 would have drawn the charge had he stayed in position, but his preemptive action prevents illegal contact.

I guess in that situation it would be play on.

That said lets say player A's shot is short his rebound comes right back to him with player B still directly between him and the bucket. A1 tries to drive to the basket (or makes another attempt at goal) around B1 and contact ensues that puts A1 at a disadvantage. At that point I would argue you have a foul on B1 as both team and player control ends at the try and the player on the floor did not re-establish a LGP.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Duffman

I guess in that situation it would be play on.

That said lets say player A's shot is short his rebound comes right back to him with player B still directly between him and the bucket. A1 tries to drive to the basket (or makes another attempt at goal) around B1 and contact ensues that puts A1 at a disadvantage. At that point I would argue you have a foul on B1 as both team and player control ends at the try and the player on the floor did not re-establish a LGP.

If B1 isn't moving, he doesn't need LGP.

[Duffman]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

If B1 isn't moving, he doesn't need LGP.

Define moving.... we talking about planking here?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Duffman

Define moving.... we talking about planking here?

Changing positions in relation to the floor. Rolling, trying to get up, stretching out the arms or legs, etc.

What Do You Have

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by snaqwells

for nfhs, if b1 isn't moving, he doesn't need lgp.

ftfy.