What do you have?

fiasco · #1 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 29, 2011, 11:51pm

Defensive player B1 falls to the floor. A1, while dribbling, backs up and trips over B1, who is still on the floor. A1 holds the ball and falls to the floor.

stiffler3492 · #2 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 29, 2011, 11:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by fiasco

Defensive player B1 falls to the floor. A1, while dribbling, backs up and trips over B1, who is still on the floor. A1 holds the ball and falls to the floor.

I'm leaning toward traveling. B1 is there legally, right? As long as A1 has a chance to avoid the contact, wouldn't it be traveling?

Scrapper1 · #3 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 30, 2011, 12:21am

Quote:

Originally Posted by fiasco

Defensive player B1 falls to the floor. A1, while dribbling, backs up and trips over B1, who is still on the floor. A1 holds the ball and falls to the floor.

Are you reading the same blog I am? This just came up recently. . .

My understanding is that the play is a traveling violation in NFHS and a blocking foul on B1 in NCAA.

fiasco · #4 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 30, 2011, 12:33am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Are you reading the same blog I am? This just came up recently. . .

My understanding is that the play is a traveling violation in NFHS and a blocking foul on B1 in NCAA.

Actually, it was a play in the Duke/OSU game earlier tonight. Happened about five feet in from of Mike Kitts. He called travel. I'm just wondering what the rules justification is for a travel rather than a block.

stiffler3492 · #5 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 30, 2011, 12:38am

Quote:

Originally Posted by fiasco

Actually, it was a play in the Duke/OSU game earlier tonight. Happened about five feet in from of Mike Kitts. He called travel. I'm just wondering what the rules justification is for a travel rather than a block.

I thought that might be what you were getting at. I was surprised there wasn't a foul on that play.

RSturgell · #6 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 30, 2011, 02:14am

If I'm thinking of the correct play involving Craft being the player on the floor, I was surprised it wasnt a foul on Craft as well. The play looked to me like the defensive player was trying to reach up and around the offensive player from behind and on the floor and the offensive player tripped over him.

ga314ref · #7 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 30, 2011, 07:25am

Quote:

Originally Posted by fiasco

Defensive player B1 falls to the floor. A1, while dribbling, backs up and trips over B1, who is still on the floor. A1 holds the ball and falls to the floor.

...even though he's on the floor. A1 has traveled.

bob jenkins · #8 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 30, 2011, 07:58am

THere is (or was) a specific case play on FED where B1's position is legal, andin NCAA where the position is not.

I think this play was in RefMag recently (this month?) and they had the position as legal in both.

Adam · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 30, 2011, 09:24am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ga314ref

...even though he's on the floor. A1 has traveled.

Not in NCAA.

twocentsworth · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 30, 2011, 10:11am

imho, Mike Kitts got this play wrong. Aaron Craft (OSU playing laying on the floor) should have been called for a foul. Instead, Kitts called traveling. I'm sure John Adams cringed when he saw this play - a "big time" official not calling one of the NCAA's "absolutes" on national TV. ouch babe!

Raymond · #11 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 30, 2011, 10:24am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Are you reading the same blog I am? This just came up recently. . .

My understanding is that the play is a traveling violation in NFHS and a blocking foul on B1 in NCAA.

Concur. I had this play in a college game 3 years ago. I called a travel but didn't feel good about the call so I looked it up and discovered that I should have called a blocking foul.

bainsey · #12 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 30, 2011, 10:47am

I must confess that I'm struggling with a travel call here.

Here's my rationale: If contact causes a travel, I will have a foul, unless the defender had LGP. (That is, ball handler runs into defender, who's guarding legally.) I don't see how anyone on the floor could have LGP. Nobody intends to guard from down there.

Adam · #13 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 30, 2011, 10:56am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bainsey

I must confess that I'm struggling with a travel call here.

Here's my rationale: If contact causes a travel, I will have a foul, unless the defender had LGP. (That is, ball handler runs into defender, who's guarding legally.) I don't see how anyone on the floor could have LGP. Nobody intends to guard from down there.

It's simple, a stationary player doesn't need LGP. Thus no foul in HS if he's not moving. College considers it an illegal position, thus a foul.

Welpe · #14 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 30, 2011, 10:59am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bainsey

I must confess that I'm struggling with a travel call here.

Here's my rationale: If contact causes a travel, I will have a foul, unless the defender had LGP. (That is, ball handler runs into defender, who's guarding legally.) I don't see how anyone on the floor could have LGP. Nobody intends to guard from down there.

LGP has nothing to do with it. It is possible for a player to not have LGP and be innocent of contact between himself and a player in control of the ball. Each player is still entitled to his space on the floor and there is no provision requiring that player to be on his feet.

KCRC · #15 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 30, 2011, 11:08am

I saw this play last night. I've been lurking here too long, because my first thought was, that's a foul in NCAA according to the esteemed members of the forum.

Is this the relevant case book play?

A.R. 110. B1 slips to the floor in the free-throw lane. A1 (with his/her back
to B1, who is prone) receives a pass, turns and, in his or her attempt
to drive to the basket, trips and falls over B1.
RULING: Foul on B1, who is not in a legal guarding position.
(Rule 4-35.4.a)