Charge, After Charge, After Charge

[NCHSAA]

In a boys game last night, I personally had 7 PC fouls, plus 2 team-control's after a pass off. My partners together had 6 PC fouls and we only had 1 block on a crash.

Total offensive foul count = 15 for the Boys game.

Needless to say it was the most I have ever had, or seen, in a game.

[tref]

RA coming to a HS near you by 2017... if this 2012 thing doesnt pop off

[NCHSAA]

Originally Posted by tref

RA coming to a HS near you by 2017... if this 2012 thing doesnt pop off

You know what, thats a good point. Even under NCAA rules we would have still had 15 though. Not one was in the RA that I can recall, but having 15 I am liable to foget one or two.

[Welpe]

Good defense, poor offense or a combination of both?

[stiffler3492]

Man, maybe it's just me improving, but I've already called probably 15 PC fouls this year. I think I'm doing a better job of seeing how the defense got there.

Someone told me something that a former NBA ref told him: 90% of all block/charge contact plays should be offensive fouls. Agree or disagree?

[tref]

Originally Posted by stiffler3492

Someone told me something that a former NBA ref told him: 90% of all block/charge contact plays should be offensive fouls. Agree or disagree?

Either somebody took something out of context or that's why he's a former NBA ref.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by stiffler3492

Man, maybe it's just me improving, but I've already called probably 15 PC fouls this year. I think I'm doing a better job of seeing how the defense got there.

Someone told me something that a former NBA ref told him: 90% of all block/charge contact plays should be offensive fouls. Agree or disagree?

Originally Posted by tref

Either somebody took something out of context or that's why he's a former NBA ref.

Actually that person really said 9 out of 10 (which is 90% percent) we should call PC fouls and we would be right.

Obviously I agree as I call a lot of PC fouls long before I ever heard that comment from a person that is in my Association's Hall of Fame and is a former NBA Official. Then again I think we penalize defense too much for things they do not do illegally. It really drives me crazy when people justify fouls on the defense because they lean back too far or they are not vertical.

Peace

[zm1283]

I think I call more PC fouls than most partners I have. It seems like a lot of guys penalize the defense at times simply because the contact looks bad.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It really drives me crazy when people justify fouls on the defense because they lean back too far or they are not vertical.

Same here. I got into a...passionate...discussion with a friend of mine over this after I had called a PC foul in game. He said he might not have called it because the defender had flopped because he fell back early to absorb to contact and that he might have even called a block.

[letemplay]

I believe I see too many fouls on the offense, when defense gets there too late (imo), toe taps in front of an offensive player and takes it in the chest. I believe it hurts the game of basketball. I'm aware many will disagree, but the offensive player should have a reasonable chance to change direction, and I don't see that happening on some of these calls. You can debate just exactly what is "reasonable".

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by letemplay

I believe I see too many fouls on the offense, when defense gets there too late (imo), toe taps in front of an offensive player and takes it in the chest. I believe it hurts the game of basketball. I'm aware many will disagree, but the offensive player should have a reasonable chance to change direction, and I don't see that happening on some of these calls. You can debate just exactly what is "reasonable".

Here is the problem with your position, it is not supported by any rule. The rules on LGP said there is no time and distance as long as they have established LGP and maintain contact and they can move. If the offense cannot avoid the contact, the defense is not responsible. I will never call it the way you say unless they change the rule. And I doubt they will change the rule in this case. But this is the reason we have a lot of inconsistency in this application. Actually these calls are very easy if you referee the defense. But defense should be allowed to play the game too.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by letemplay

I believe I see too many fouls on the offense, when defense gets there too late (imo), toe taps in front of an offensive player and takes it in the chest. I believe it hurts the game of basketball. I'm aware many will disagree, but the offensive player should have a reasonable chance to change direction, and I don't see that happening on some of these calls. You can debate just exactly what is "reasonable".

Define "too late." By rule, that means "unable to establish or maintain legal guarding position." I have no clue what you mean "toe taps."

The offensive player should be allowed to change direction -- are you saying that the defensive player shouldn't be allowed to do so as well in order to play defense?

I'm with the rest of the officials here -- I call a lot of player control fouls.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by letemplay

I believe I see too many fouls on the offense, when defense gets there too late (imo), toe taps in front of an offensive player and takes it in the chest. I believe it hurts the game of basketball. I'm aware many will disagree, but the offensive player should have a reasonable chance to change direction, and I don't see that happening on some of these calls. You can debate just exactly what is "reasonable".

If you're saying "what it SHOULD BE" -- well, you're entitled to your opinion.

If you're giving your interpretation of "what it IS" -- well, you're wrong. Almost all of what you say is contrary to the current rules.

[tref]

IDK, the defense is illegal most times in my games.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by letemplay

I believe I see too many fouls on the offense, when defense gets there too late (imo), toe taps in front of an offensive player and takes it in the chest. I believe it hurts the game of basketball. I'm aware many will disagree, but the offensive player should have a reasonable chance to change direction, and I don't see that happening on some of these calls. You can debate just exactly what is "reasonable".

How do you define "too late" and what do you mean by "toe taps?" It's pretty tough to take it in the torso if the defender gets there too late.