Dunk in pregame

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

If the kid is a member of the varsity team and is out there warming up then he is affiliated with the jv team and is therefore bench personnel. If he is in the team warmups the same as the other players, then he is a team member. So if he dunks, call the T.

-1
That is not supported by the NFHS rules book.
If the state office makes a specific interpretation, then that is what should be done, but that isn't what the NFHS rule is.
The NFHS rules are written for VARSITY contests (It says so right in the front of the book.) and apply only for single games. There is no carry-over from game to game or one level of play to another under NFHS rules. That is left to the states and local leagues.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

-1
That is not supported by the NFHS rules book.
If the state office makes a specific interpretation, then that is what should be done, but that isn't what the NFHS rule is.
The NFHS rules are written for VARSITY contests (It says so right in the front of the book.) and apply only for single games. There is no carry-over from game to game or one level of play to another under NFHS rules. That is left to the states and local leagues.

"Written for varsity contests" isn't relevant as far as I can see, unless you're suggesting subvarsity games should use a different rule set or something.

No carry over, however, bolsters the idea that I can consider any player participating with thr team in their drills to be a player.

NFHS has determined pregame dunks are unsporting, why let them dance around the rule this way?

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

-1
That is not supported by the NFHS rules book.
If the state office makes a specific interpretation, then that is what should be done, but that isn't what the NFHS rule is.
The NFHS rules are written for VARSITY contests (It says so right in the front of the book.) and apply only for single games. There is no carry-over from game to game or one level of play to another under NFHS rules. That is left to the states and local leagues.

It most certainly is...check the definitions of player, etc - I think it's 4-34.

As far as something carrying over, I have no idea what you are talking about. Once that kid got in the warmup line dressed like everyone else, he became a member of that team. If he dunks, T him.

[7IronRef]

ok, here's one

around here there is a group of schools that has a competition for pizza slices. students pay a buck and get to shoot from half court, everyone who makes gets a slice, this takes place for nearly 8 minutes until teams return to floor

suppose varsity players are involved but since anyone can participate you cant tell who is from which team and who are players instead of fans

now suppose a clown decides to dunk

how do you differentiate who is player, what team, if any and try to enforce the notion of if they are on the floor during halftime they are affiliated with a specific team

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by 7IronRef

ok, here's one

around here there is a group of schools that has a competition for pizza slices. students pay a buck and get to shoot from half court, everyone who makes gets a slice, this takes place for nearly 8 minutes until teams return to floor

suppose varsity players are involved but since anyone can participate you cant tell who is from which team and who are players instead of fans

now suppose a clown decides to dunk

how do you differentiate who is player, what team, if any and try to enforce the notion of if they are on the floor during halftime they are affiliated with a specific team

First, this is apples to oranges. This is not a team warming up prior to the game or at halftime.

But to humor you, the answer is easy. We don't take the floor until the teams return. So we won't be on the floor during the halftime fan activity.

[Camron Rust]

It is not our job sort out who is on the team. By allowing him to participate in the activities, the team/coach has made that decision for us. Being on the floor warming up with the team, he is participating and will get a T.

Now the only question that remains is whether to add them to the book as a squad member or just penalize him as bench personnel. If the former, you might also have an administrative T for changing the book. (I suggest the latter)

[Nevadaref]

What if a team member's older brother, who is now in college, comes onto the court during the pre-game warm-ups and decides to show him how to dunk better? Let's say that he borrowed a team warm-up suit. He is not an assistant coach and not going to sit on the bench during the game.


PS
What if a injured player's mom comes onto the court takes the ball and dunks it?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

What if a team member's older brother, who is now in college, comes onto the court during the pre-game warm-ups and decides to show him how to dunk better? Let's say that he borrowed a team warm-up suit. He is not an assistant coach and not going to sit on the bench during the game.

Keep giving examples. No matter who it is, if he is dressed like the team, and warming up with the team, he is affiliated with the team, and is subject to being penalized for his actions.

You're saying him sitting on the bench would make a difference? On the bench is an affiliation, but warming up with the team is not?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Keep giving examples. No matter who it is, if he is dressed like the team, and warming up with the team, he is affiliated with the team, and is subject to being penalized for his actions.

You're saying him sitting on the bench would make a difference? On the bench is an affiliation, but warming up with the team is not?

Since only team members are listed in the scorebook, I put the part about will not be sitting on the bench to make it clear that he is not an asst coach, a manager, a stat person, a trainer, etc. with the team.

I can't believe that people are actually saying that a VARSITY team member who is on the court during the JV warm-ups should be considered part of the JV team! Those who are writing that are actually stating that the kid is part of another team, yet still want to include him with the team currently contesting the game. That is absurd. If you know that he is on the Varsity team, then how can you consider him to be part of the JV squad?

The kid is either on the Varsity team or the JV team. If your state allows him to play in both, then I can see this side of the argument. However, barring such a provision, the kid should be treated as a spectator and removed from the floor without penalty to the team participating in the game.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The kid is either on the Varsity team or the JV team. If your state allows him to play in both, then I can see this side of the argument. However, barring such a provision, the kid should be treated as a spectator and removed from the floor without penalty to the team participating in the game.

My state does allow him to play in both.

But what about the language? .....individuals who are part of or affiliated with a team, including, but not limited to...........etc.

Sounds like a green light to T anybody who is doing something he shouldn't be doing.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

What if a team member's older brother, who is now in college, comes onto the court during the pre-game warm-ups and decides to show him how to dunk better? Let's say that he borrowed a team warm-up suit. He is not an assistant coach and not going to sit on the bench during the game.


PS
What if a injured player's mom comes onto the court takes the ball and dunks it?

It's as easy as "Whack!"

[Camron Rust]

Just like anyone on the bench is subject to sportsmanship rules and is under the responsibility of the coach, anyone participating with warmups is also under the responsibility of the coach.

If that were not the case, someone actually on the team could dunk and the coach could then say the offending party was not on the team but a guest, on a different team, or even a stranger....and you'd be left with nothing you could do even if they were going to be a player.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Just like anyone on the bench is subject to sportsmanship rules and is under the responsibility of the coach, anyone participating with warmups is also under the responsibility of the coach.

If that were not the case, someone actually on the team could dunk and the coach could would then say the offending party was not on the team but a guest, on a different team, or even a stranger....and you'd be left with nothing you could do even if they were going to be a player.

fify

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

What if a team member's older brother, who is now in college, comes onto the court during the pre-game warm-ups and decides to show him how to dunk better? Let's say that he borrowed a team warm-up suit. He is not an assistant coach and not going to sit on the bench during the game.


PS
What if a injured player's mom comes onto the court takes the ball and dunks it?

By not chasing him off the court, the team is permitting him to join their warm-up which makes him affiliated with the team which is the very definition of bench personnel. There is no actual requirement of sitting on the bench during the game.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

There is no actual requirement of sitting on the bench during the game.

That's a real slippery slope if you want to use that as a basis for argument.