Dunk in pregame

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Okay, here's the crux, and it's probably a Roman thing.

Last month, we received instruction that, when a team is warming up, ONLY team members can be on the floor. If they're going to the locker room, it's a different story, but once they come out, it's only about the team. Everyone else is to be sent off.

So, if they're not part of the team, then I can't extend bench personnel to them. It's either 2-8-1 or nothing (most likely the latter), as far as I can see.

This does indeed sound like a local thing. So you are not to permit coaches or managers to be on the floor during warm ups? I occasionally have a coach go onto the floor and not uncommonly have student managers assisting warm ups.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

So you are not to permit coaches or managers to be on the floor during warm ups?

My mistake. I meant bench personnel, not team members.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by bainsey

My mistake. I meant bench personnel, not team members.

Fair enough. I think this though does become a bit of a circular definition as anyone the team permits on the court during warm ups is therefore affiliated with the team and thus bench personnel.

In practice, if it's obvious that he's a non-dressed varsity player and the coach is telling me he shouldn't have been out there, I'm not going to assess the T.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Fair enough. I think this though does become a bit of a circular definition as anyone the team permits on the court during warm ups is therefore affiliated with the team and thus bench personnel.

I define it a little tighter than that, to players, coaches, managers, and staff of THAT game. If you're playing in the next game, then you'll need to get off the court when the proper teams are practicing. You're not a part of that team.

The simple fact that we would speak with the coaches about that dunker -- and clearing up who he is -- should be incentive enough to keep him off the court. Nobody wants that conversation.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I define it a little tighter than that, to players, coaches, managers, and staff of THAT game. If you're playing in the next game, then you'll need to get off the court when the proper teams are practicing. You're not a part of that team.

The simple fact that we would speak with the coaches about that dunker -- and clearing up who he is -- should be incentive enough to keep him off the court. Nobody wants that conversation.

I sympathize with that, but see my last post for my state's interpretation: varsity players can warm up with the JV and are bench personnel.

[rockyroad]

If the kid is a member of the varsity team and is out there warming up then he is affiliated with the jv team and is therefore bench personnel. If he is in the team warmups the same as the other players, then he is a team member. So if he dunks, call the T.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

if the kid is a member of the varsity team and is out there warming up then he is affiliated with the jv team and is therefore bench personnel. If he is in the team warmups the same as the other players, then he is a team member. So if he dunks, call the t.

+1

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

If the kid is a member of the varsity team and is out there warming up then he is affiliated with the jv team and is therefore bench personnel. If he is in the team warmups the same as the other players, then he is a team member. So if he dunks, call the T.

-1
That is not supported by the NFHS rules book.
If the state office makes a specific interpretation, then that is what should be done, but that isn't what the NFHS rule is.
The NFHS rules are written for VARSITY contests (It says so right in the front of the book.) and apply only for single games. There is no carry-over from game to game or one level of play to another under NFHS rules. That is left to the states and local leagues.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

-1
That is not supported by the NFHS rules book.
If the state office makes a specific interpretation, then that is what should be done, but that isn't what the NFHS rule is.
The NFHS rules are written for VARSITY contests (It says so right in the front of the book.) and apply only for single games. There is no carry-over from game to game or one level of play to another under NFHS rules. That is left to the states and local leagues.

"Written for varsity contests" isn't relevant as far as I can see, unless you're suggesting subvarsity games should use a different rule set or something.

No carry over, however, bolsters the idea that I can consider any player participating with thr team in their drills to be a player.

NFHS has determined pregame dunks are unsporting, why let them dance around the rule this way?

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

-1
That is not supported by the NFHS rules book.
If the state office makes a specific interpretation, then that is what should be done, but that isn't what the NFHS rule is.
The NFHS rules are written for VARSITY contests (It says so right in the front of the book.) and apply only for single games. There is no carry-over from game to game or one level of play to another under NFHS rules. That is left to the states and local leagues.

It most certainly is...check the definitions of player, etc - I think it's 4-34.

As far as something carrying over, I have no idea what you are talking about. Once that kid got in the warmup line dressed like everyone else, he became a member of that team. If he dunks, T him.

[7IronRef]

ok, here's one

around here there is a group of schools that has a competition for pizza slices. students pay a buck and get to shoot from half court, everyone who makes gets a slice, this takes place for nearly 8 minutes until teams return to floor

suppose varsity players are involved but since anyone can participate you cant tell who is from which team and who are players instead of fans

now suppose a clown decides to dunk

how do you differentiate who is player, what team, if any and try to enforce the notion of if they are on the floor during halftime they are affiliated with a specific team

[constable]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

If the kid is a member of the varsity team and is out there warming up then he is affiliated with the jv team and is therefore bench personnel. If he is in the team warmups the same as the other players, then he is a team member. So if he dunks, call the T.

I disagree.

Per 10-3-3 dunking a dead ball is a PLAYER technical. Who are you gonna charge the foul too?

[JugglingReferee]

What is the call if a player allow himself to be used as a step for this teammate to dunk? Yes, it's during the game.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by constable

I disagree. Per 10-3-3 dunking a dead ball is a PLAYER technical. Who are you gonna charge the foul too?

Charge the technical foul and then, if it's after the ten minute limit, charge a second technical foul for adding his name to the team roster? Man, that will get the game off to a good start.

For the simple reason of this "double jeopardy" overkill, I'm not charging a technical foul for pregame dunking if a person, not listed as a team member on the team roster for that specific game, dunks the ball. Just my opinion.

[Shane O]

Originally Posted by constable

I disagree.

Per 10-3-3 dunking a dead ball is a PLAYER technical. Who are you gonna charge the foul too?

Couldn't you use 10-4-1i to give a T as bench personnel?

"Grasping either basket except to prevent injury; dunking or stuffing, or attempting to dunk or stuff a dead ball."