Dunk in pregame

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

So you are not to permit coaches or managers to be on the floor during warm ups?

My mistake. I meant bench personnel, not team members.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by bainsey

My mistake. I meant bench personnel, not team members.

Fair enough. I think this though does become a bit of a circular definition as anyone the team permits on the court during warm ups is therefore affiliated with the team and thus bench personnel.

In practice, if it's obvious that he's a non-dressed varsity player and the coach is telling me he shouldn't have been out there, I'm not going to assess the T.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Fair enough. I think this though does become a bit of a circular definition as anyone the team permits on the court during warm ups is therefore affiliated with the team and thus bench personnel.

I define it a little tighter than that, to players, coaches, managers, and staff of THAT game. If you're playing in the next game, then you'll need to get off the court when the proper teams are practicing. You're not a part of that team.

The simple fact that we would speak with the coaches about that dunker -- and clearing up who he is -- should be incentive enough to keep him off the court. Nobody wants that conversation.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I define it a little tighter than that, to players, coaches, managers, and staff of THAT game. If you're playing in the next game, then you'll need to get off the court when the proper teams are practicing. You're not a part of that team.

The simple fact that we would speak with the coaches about that dunker -- and clearing up who he is -- should be incentive enough to keep him off the court. Nobody wants that conversation.

I sympathize with that, but see my last post for my state's interpretation: varsity players can warm up with the JV and are bench personnel.

[rockyroad]

If the kid is a member of the varsity team and is out there warming up then he is affiliated with the jv team and is therefore bench personnel. If he is in the team warmups the same as the other players, then he is a team member. So if he dunks, call the T.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

if the kid is a member of the varsity team and is out there warming up then he is affiliated with the jv team and is therefore bench personnel. If he is in the team warmups the same as the other players, then he is a team member. So if he dunks, call the t.

+1

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

If the kid is a member of the varsity team and is out there warming up then he is affiliated with the jv team and is therefore bench personnel. If he is in the team warmups the same as the other players, then he is a team member. So if he dunks, call the T.

-1
That is not supported by the NFHS rules book.
If the state office makes a specific interpretation, then that is what should be done, but that isn't what the NFHS rule is.
The NFHS rules are written for VARSITY contests (It says so right in the front of the book.) and apply only for single games. There is no carry-over from game to game or one level of play to another under NFHS rules. That is left to the states and local leagues.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

-1
That is not supported by the NFHS rules book.
If the state office makes a specific interpretation, then that is what should be done, but that isn't what the NFHS rule is.
The NFHS rules are written for VARSITY contests (It says so right in the front of the book.) and apply only for single games. There is no carry-over from game to game or one level of play to another under NFHS rules. That is left to the states and local leagues.

"Written for varsity contests" isn't relevant as far as I can see, unless you're suggesting subvarsity games should use a different rule set or something.

No carry over, however, bolsters the idea that I can consider any player participating with thr team in their drills to be a player.

NFHS has determined pregame dunks are unsporting, why let them dance around the rule this way?

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

-1
That is not supported by the NFHS rules book.
If the state office makes a specific interpretation, then that is what should be done, but that isn't what the NFHS rule is.
The NFHS rules are written for VARSITY contests (It says so right in the front of the book.) and apply only for single games. There is no carry-over from game to game or one level of play to another under NFHS rules. That is left to the states and local leagues.

It most certainly is...check the definitions of player, etc - I think it's 4-34.

As far as something carrying over, I have no idea what you are talking about. Once that kid got in the warmup line dressed like everyone else, he became a member of that team. If he dunks, T him.

[7IronRef]

ok, here's one

around here there is a group of schools that has a competition for pizza slices. students pay a buck and get to shoot from half court, everyone who makes gets a slice, this takes place for nearly 8 minutes until teams return to floor

suppose varsity players are involved but since anyone can participate you cant tell who is from which team and who are players instead of fans

now suppose a clown decides to dunk

how do you differentiate who is player, what team, if any and try to enforce the notion of if they are on the floor during halftime they are affiliated with a specific team

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by 7IronRef

ok, here's one

around here there is a group of schools that has a competition for pizza slices. students pay a buck and get to shoot from half court, everyone who makes gets a slice, this takes place for nearly 8 minutes until teams return to floor

suppose varsity players are involved but since anyone can participate you cant tell who is from which team and who are players instead of fans

now suppose a clown decides to dunk

how do you differentiate who is player, what team, if any and try to enforce the notion of if they are on the floor during halftime they are affiliated with a specific team

First, this is apples to oranges. This is not a team warming up prior to the game or at halftime.

But to humor you, the answer is easy. We don't take the floor until the teams return. So we won't be on the floor during the halftime fan activity.

[Camron Rust]

It is not our job sort out who is on the team. By allowing him to participate in the activities, the team/coach has made that decision for us. Being on the floor warming up with the team, he is participating and will get a T.

Now the only question that remains is whether to add them to the book as a squad member or just penalize him as bench personnel. If the former, you might also have an administrative T for changing the book. (I suggest the latter)

[refiator]

Originally Posted by 7IronRef

ok, here's one

around here there is a group of schools that has a competition for pizza slices. students pay a buck and get to shoot from half court, everyone who makes gets a slice, this takes place for nearly 8 minutes until teams return to floor

suppose varsity players are involved but since anyone can participate you cant tell who is from which team and who are players instead of fans

now suppose a clown decides to dunk

how do you differentiate who is player, what team, if any and try to enforce the notion of if they are on the floor during halftime they are affiliated with a specific team

This is a good discussion. I'd rule here that the halftime "exhibition" is not a part of the warm-ups, so no penalty.
However, if the JV team is engaged in pre-game warm ups and a varsity player joins them, I'd rule him as a member of that squad, and take care of business as needed.
I am very wary of calling pre game technicals, however, and would only do so if it was obviously egregious.

[constable]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

If the kid is a member of the varsity team and is out there warming up then he is affiliated with the jv team and is therefore bench personnel. If he is in the team warmups the same as the other players, then he is a team member. So if he dunks, call the T.

I disagree.

Per 10-3-3 dunking a dead ball is a PLAYER technical. Who are you gonna charge the foul too?

[JugglingReferee]

What is the call if a player allow himself to be used as a step for this teammate to dunk? Yes, it's during the game.