Charging vs. Player control

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Hartsy

That's the point. Hand behind head is what many consider a charging signal, not a player control signal.

Many also believe other myths. Who cares? Do you allow that to effect what you call?

[ballgame99]

the distinction between a PCF and just a pushing foul matters why? Just in whether or not the foulee is shooting 1&1?

[Hartsy]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Many also believe other myths. Who cares? Do you allow that to effect what you call?

Doesn't affect what I call at all. I was pointing out that incorrectly signaling a defensive "charge" with hand behind head signal could potentially confuse your partner, table crew, and/or coaches, let alone fans who are often confused anyhow.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Hartsy

Doesn't affect what I call at all. I was pointing out that incorrectly signaling a defensive "charge" with hand behind head signal could potentially confuse your partner, table crew, and/or coaches, let alone fans who are often confused anyhow.

And why would someone do that?

[Hartsy]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

And why would someone do that?

I can't imagine anyone would, but part of the discussion was the defiition of "charging", which does not specify that only the dribbler can "charge". Many associate the hand behind head signal with a charge rather than player control. I was pointing out what confusion could ensue if the push signal was not used for a defensive charge.

[Welpe]

I think I'm confused now.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Welpe

I think I'm confused now.

I know. My head hurts now.

There's no reason to use a PC signal for a defensive charging call.

There's no reason for any official to equate charging as an offense only foul.

As for signals, pushing or charging, the signal is the same. Signal #33.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Hartsy

I can't imagine anyone would, but part of the discussion was the defiition of "charging", which does not specify that only the dribbler can "charge". Many associate the hand behind head signal with a charge rather than player control. I was pointing out what confusion could ensue if the push signal was not used for a defensive charge.

Many what? No official I know uses that signal for anything except PC.

[Hartsy]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Many what? No official I know uses that signal for anything except PC.

It wasn't directed at officials. We all should know better. It was a theoretical after acknowledging that it isn't only a dribbler who can charge, given the rulebook definition of that term.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Hartsy

I can't imagine anyone would, but part of the discussion was the defiition of "charging", which does not specify that only the dribbler can "charge". Many associate the hand behind head signal with a charge rather than player control. I was pointing out what confusion could ensue if the push signal was not used for a defensive charge.

It would also be confusing if the travel signal was used when the ball went out of bounds.

Maybe this helps. If one looks at the table of Official NFHS Signals, one will discover the signals for a push and a charge are.................the same signal.

[just another ref]

But what if one official signals a block and the other signals a player control foul, then what do we do?

[BktBallRef]

A hot mess.