Charging vs. Player control

Toren · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 28, 2011, 04:13pm

All charges are not player control fouls

but

Are all player control fouls charges?

I'm having trouble thinking of examples of player control fouls that are not charges.

Can anyone help?

rfp · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 28, 2011, 04:21pm

A1 with the ball pivots into a stationary defender B1 and hits B1 with an elbow across the bridge of the nose. Not a charge, but a PCF.

Rich · #3 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 28, 2011, 04:23pm

A1 hooks the defender to get around...

Toren · #4 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 28, 2011, 04:25pm

+1

thanks.

tref · #5 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 28, 2011, 04:27pm

A1 drives to the basket & uses his off hand to create space.
Northside!

Toren · #6 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 28, 2011, 04:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tref

A1 drives to the basket & uses his off hand to create space.
Northside!

I was thinking this one too but then I read 4-7-2 d and then I was like whoa, that's a charge. Unless you're visualizing something else.

tref · #7 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 28, 2011, 04:33pm

Is it a charge if it happens at the 3 point line? Halfcourt? Or just below the FT line extended?

Toren · #8 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 28, 2011, 04:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tref

Is it a charge if it happens at the 3 point line? Halfcourt? Or just below the FT line extended?

I'm not sure I'm understanding the question...are you asking definitionally?

Mechanically, we're going PCF in all cases.

Welpe · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 28, 2011, 04:47pm

He means by rule.

Toren · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 28, 2011, 04:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tref

Is it a charge if it happens at the 3 point line? Halfcourt? Or just below the FT line extended?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welpe

He means by rule.

By rule, I don't see a difference. Looks like they are all charges. I don't see anything in rule about location being of issue.

tref · #11 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 28, 2011, 04:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toren

I'm not sure I'm understanding the question...are you asking definitionally?

Mechanically, we're going PCF in all cases.

You're correct, going to & through the torso is p/c & so is using the hand to push the defenders torso to create space for a shot or pass.

At the end of the day, we use the same mechanic for a p/c or charge by the ball handler.

Welpe · #12 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 28, 2011, 05:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toren

By rule, I don't see a difference. Looks like they are all charges. I don't see anything in rule about location being of issue.

The player in possession can also be guilty of infractions under 4-24 in addition to it being a charge. It's an esoteric distinction really but I think you know that.

Adam · #13 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 28, 2011, 06:31pm

Illegal ball screen, hooking, push off,

Hartsy · #14 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 29, 2011, 12:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toren

All charges are not player control fouls

??? What am I missing here? How can a charge NOT be a PC foul?

Rich · #15 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 29, 2011, 12:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hartsy

??? What am I missing here? How can a charge NOT be a PC foul?

Pass and crash. Still a charge, not a player control foul.

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