Passing ball to self

[MiamiWadeCounty]

A1 is stationary. A1 tosses ball up and catches it, while never lifting pivot. Legal?

What rule would A1 violate if A1 tosses the ball up and then runs to catch it before the ball touches the floor? I know this case is illegal, but I do not know where in the rules book says that it's illegal. Some people say that it's traveling. Others say that it's an illegal dribble.

[just another ref]

Legal.



Traveling



Case book 4.44.3 D

[APG]

Just want to point out a technicality...

It's impossible to pass the ball to oneself by rule due to the very definition of a pass.

[Toren]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Just want to point out a technicality...

It's impossible to pass the ball to oneself by rule due to the very definition of a pass.

This reminds me of a question a coached asked me in the Spring. After a game, his team had been playing in the other gym, he asked me: If player A1 saves the ball from going out of bounds and then runs inbounds and is the first to catch the ball. Is this legal?

The coach went on to say that he has heard many explanations on both sides of the debate on whether this is legal or not. From the scenario described I couldn't think of why this wouldn't be legal. But of course I responded to the coach: "had to be there coach, not sure what the official saw or if the player might have still been stepping out of bounds."

But as I think about it, I'm not certain either way. Thoughts on this play?

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Toren

This reminds me of a question a coached asked me in the Spring. After a game, his team had been playing in the other gym, he asked me: If player A1 saves the ball from going out of bounds and then runs inbounds and is the first to catch the ball. Is this legal?

The play is legal. There's a case play under 7.1. Take a look.

[Toren]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

The play is legal. There's a case play under 7.1. Take a look.

That's the one.

Perfect. Thank you.

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

The play is legal. There's a case play under 7.1. Take a look.

Bball ref: So you are saying it is always legal??? So if a guy goes to save the ball and cups it in a controlled manner and gently tosses it back onto the floor, re-establishes himself on the floor, that is legal, under HS rules is what I'm asking. I definitely believe it is legal if a player just bats/smacks the ball (no control) and comes back onto the floor and is the first to touch bc he had never controlled the ball.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Toren

But as I think about it, I'm not certain either way. Thoughts on this play?

Too many people confusing what they see in the NBA compared to the high school rules.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Too many people confusing what they see in the NBA compared to the high school rules.

And too many officials, at all levels, misunderstanding the college "first to touch" rule. They then misapply it in a game for which it's not even a rule.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Toren

This reminds me of a question a coached asked me in the Spring. After a game, his team had been playing in the other gym, he asked me: If player A1 saves the ball from going out of bounds and then runs inbounds and is the first to catch the ball. Is this legal?

It depends on how he "saves" it, how he "catches" it and what he had done prior to needeing to "save" it.

[MiamiWadeCounty]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Legal.



Traveling



Case book 4.44.3 D

Well, yes. The case book clearly explains it, but not the rules book.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by MiamiWadeCounty

...
What rule would A1 violate if A1 tosses the ball up and then runs to catch it before the ball touches the floor? I know this case is illegal, but I do not know where in the rules book says that it's illegal. Some people say that it's traveling. Others say that it's an illegal dribble.

Originally Posted by MiamiWadeCounty

Well, yes. The case book clearly explains it, but not the rules book.

It violated rule 4-44-3a. The pivot foot may be lifted, but not returned to the floor, before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal.

However if A1 never established a pivot foot the rule doesn't cover that as a traveling violation. So it would have to be an illegal dribble. However I can't find in the rule book or case book anything that refers to it as an illegal dribble.

And the case play cited refers you to rule 9-4 which in turn refers you to rule 4-44.

[MiamiWadeCounty]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

It violated rule 4-44-3a. The pivot foot may be lifted, but not returned to the floor, before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal.

I get it now. I was totally disregarding the fact that the pivot foot may not be return back to the floor if the pass hasn't touch another player. The problem was that I thought traveling can only occur when a player is holding the ball.

However if A1 never established a pivot foot the rule doesn't cover that as a traveling violation. So it would have to be an illegal dribble. However I can't find in the rule book or case book anything that refers to it as an illegal dribble.

4.44.3 SITUATION B: A1 receives the ball with both feet off the floor and he/she lands simultaneously on both feet without establishing a pivot foot. A1 then jumps off both feet in an attempt to try for goal, but realizing the shot may be blocked, A1 drops the ball to the floor and dribbles. RULING: A1 has traveled as one foot must be considered to be the pivot and must be on the floor when the ball is released to start a dribble. The fact that no pivot foot had been established does not alter this ruling.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by MiamiWadeCounty

I get it now. I was totally disregarding the fact that the pivot foot may not be return back to the floor if the pass hasn't touch another player. The problem was that I thought traveling can only occur when a player is holding the ball.

I have no idea what that means. Your pivot foot has nothing to do with when or whther another player touches the ball.

You are correct that a player cannot travel unless he is holding the ball, with one exception.

4.44.3 SITUATION B:

A1 receives the ball with both feet off the floor and he/she lands simultaneously on both feet without establishing a pivot foot. A1 then jumps off both feet in an attempt to try for goal, but realizing the shot may be blocked, A1 drops the ball to the floor and dribbles. RULING: A1 has traveled as one foot must be considered to be the pivot and must be on the floor when the ball is released to start a dribble. The fact that no pivot foot had been established does not alter this ruling.

The case play has nothing to do with the play you originally posted.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

It violated rule 4-44-3a. The pivot foot may be lifted, but not returned to the floor, before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal.

That rule simply does not apply to the original post.

This rule covers a player who jumps and returns to the floor before he releases the ball.

The original play had the player throwing the ball, running and touching the ball before it hit the floor. That's a completely different scenario.