Passing ball to self

[MiamiWadeCounty]

A1 is stationary. A1 tosses ball up and catches it, while never lifting pivot. Legal?

What rule would A1 violate if A1 tosses the ball up and then runs to catch it before the ball touches the floor? I know this case is illegal, but I do not know where in the rules book says that it's illegal. Some people say that it's traveling. Others say that it's an illegal dribble.

[just another ref]

Legal.



Traveling



Case book 4.44.3 D

[APG]

Just want to point out a technicality...

It's impossible to pass the ball to oneself by rule due to the very definition of a pass.

[Toren]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Just want to point out a technicality...

It's impossible to pass the ball to oneself by rule due to the very definition of a pass.

This reminds me of a question a coached asked me in the Spring. After a game, his team had been playing in the other gym, he asked me: If player A1 saves the ball from going out of bounds and then runs inbounds and is the first to catch the ball. Is this legal?

The coach went on to say that he has heard many explanations on both sides of the debate on whether this is legal or not. From the scenario described I couldn't think of why this wouldn't be legal. But of course I responded to the coach: "had to be there coach, not sure what the official saw or if the player might have still been stepping out of bounds."

But as I think about it, I'm not certain either way. Thoughts on this play?

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by MiamiWadeCounty

A1 is stationary. A1 tosses ball up and catches it, while never lifting pivot. Legal?

What rule would A1 violate if A1 tosses the ball up and then runs to catch it before the ball touches the floor? I know this case is illegal, but I do not know where in the rules book says that it's illegal. Some people say that it's traveling. Others say that it's an illegal dribble.

jar gave you the appropriate case play but the case play is wrong. By rule, it's an illegal dribble. Traveling is moving the pivot foot outside prescribed limits while HOLDING the ball. A1 isn't holding the ball when he lifts his pivot.

The correct ruling was listed for years. Then, a few seasons ago, some Einstein changed the ruling.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Toren

This reminds me of a question a coached asked me in the Spring. After a game, his team had been playing in the other gym, he asked me: If player A1 saves the ball from going out of bounds and then runs inbounds and is the first to catch the ball. Is this legal?

The play is legal. There's a case play under 7.1. Take a look.

[Toren]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

The play is legal. There's a case play under 7.1. Take a look.

That's the one.

Perfect. Thank you.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Toren

But as I think about it, I'm not certain either way. Thoughts on this play?

Too many people confusing what they see in the NBA compared to the high school rules.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Too many people confusing what they see in the NBA compared to the high school rules.

And too many officials, at all levels, misunderstanding the college "first to touch" rule. They then misapply it in a game for which it's not even a rule.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

And too many officials, at all levels, misunderstanding the college "first to touch" rule. They then misapply it in a game for which it's not even a rule.

And think it's the NFL and that both feet need to be inbounds to reestablish themselves.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Toren

This reminds me of a question a coached asked me in the Spring. After a game, his team had been playing in the other gym, he asked me: If player A1 saves the ball from going out of bounds and then runs inbounds and is the first to catch the ball. Is this legal?

It depends on how he "saves" it, how he "catches" it and what he had done prior to needeing to "save" it.

[MiamiWadeCounty]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

jar gave you the appropriate case play but the case play is wrong. By rule, it's an illegal dribble. Traveling is moving the pivot foot outside prescribed limits while HOLDING the ball. A1 isn't holding the ball when he lifts his pivot.

If the case play is wrong, and if that supposedly an illegal dribble, then shouldn't it be an illegal dribble in my first scenario? In my first scenario, A1 ends his dribble, throws the ball straight up and then catches it before it touches the floor. Shouldn't that be an illegal dribble whether A1 took several steps or not?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by MiamiWadeCounty

If the case play is wrong, and if that supposedly an illegal dribble, then shouldn't it be an illegal dribble in my first scenario? In my first scenario, A1 ends his dribble, throws the ball straight up and then catches it before it touches the floor. Shouldn't that be an illegal dribble whether A1 took several steps or not?

Of course not.

[MiamiWadeCounty]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Legal.



Traveling



Case book 4.44.3 D

Well, yes. The case book clearly explains it, but not the rules book.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by MiamiWadeCounty

...
What rule would A1 violate if A1 tosses the ball up and then runs to catch it before the ball touches the floor? I know this case is illegal, but I do not know where in the rules book says that it's illegal. Some people say that it's traveling. Others say that it's an illegal dribble.

Originally Posted by MiamiWadeCounty

Well, yes. The case book clearly explains it, but not the rules book.

It violated rule 4-44-3a. The pivot foot may be lifted, but not returned to the floor, before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal.

However if A1 never established a pivot foot the rule doesn't cover that as a traveling violation. So it would have to be an illegal dribble. However I can't find in the rule book or case book anything that refers to it as an illegal dribble.

And the case play cited refers you to rule 9-4 which in turn refers you to rule 4-44.