Passing

[Peruvian]

American Legion, bases loaded, one out. The batter attempts a squeeze play, but misses the ball. Runner from third gets caught in a rundown, but F2Â’s throw to F5 in the attempt to retire him goes into left field. The runner coming from second is standing on third base as the ball goes into the outfield and the runner coming back into third overruns the bag. They both then run home to score. Since the ball remained live, I waited until after they both crossed the plate to get an out. I got it right (mostly), but called the preceding runner out instead of the following runner. We were going to correct it for statistical purposes, but no one said anything and they were both off the base paths, so we just left it.

Incidentally, my partner, who was on the plate, went to one of the professional umpire schools and I asked him what the correct mechanic for calling this was, since I’d never seen this happen. He said they are taught to announce as soon as the infraction occurs, “That’s passing - number * is out!” and let the play continue unless it is the third out.

I knew the rule, I just didn't execute properly. I'd never heard of that mechanic (That's passing!") before.

[mcrowder]

I've heard and used that mechanic before.

My question is about whether this is actually passing or not. A runner who "overruns third" when returning to third ends up in left field, right? That is not (necessarily) closer to 2nd base than the 3rd base bag is, so I'm not sure you have an overrun here unless he overruns it and takes a step toward 2nd. Standing in left field is simply OFF third base, not BEHIND third base with respect to whether the next runner has passed him or not.

[jicecone]

I guess I would have had to been there to see this . However, 7.08h reads " any runner is out when he passes a preceding runner before such runner is out.

Does the reverse hold true? Which seems like what happened.

Don't have all my manuals with me right now. I will check.

[greymule]

Your partner was correct. You don't wait until play stops to call a runner passing another. Call the following runner out immediately.

However, are you sure in this case there was actual passing? I haven't thought of the play at 3B before, but at 1B, if Abel is standing on 1B and Baker overruns 1B, I don't believe that Baker is considered to have passed Abel simply for overrunning 1B. Baker has to pass Abel on the basepaths to be out—i.e., take a step left toward 2B.

The play at 3B isn't really the same, since runners cannot overrun when retreating, but did the preceding runner stay in the (extended) baseline, or retreat slightly toward 2B such that the following runner "passed" him?

[DG]

Originally posted by Peruvian
American Legion, bases loaded, one out. The batter attempts a squeeze play, but misses the ball. Runner from third gets caught in a rundown, but F2Â’s throw to F5 in the attempt to retire him goes into left field. The runner coming from second is standing on third base as the ball goes into the outfield and the runner coming back into third overruns the bag. They both then run home to score. Since the ball remained live, I waited until after they both crossed the plate to get an out. I got it right (mostly), but called the preceding runner out instead of the following runner. We were going to correct it for statistical purposes, but no one said anything and they were both off the base paths, so we just left it.

Incidentally, my partner, who was on the plate, went to one of the professional umpire schools and I asked him what the correct mechanic for calling this was, since I’d never seen this happen. He said they are taught to announce as soon as the infraction occurs, “That’s passing - number * is out!” and let the play continue unless it is the third out.

I knew the rule, I just didn't execute properly. I'd never heard of that mechanic (That's passing!") before.

This one is different than the one on the other post. I can't say for sure that this is a passing situation, where I thought the other situation surely was. The correct mechanice though, when it happens, is to call it instantly. I point at the runner who did the passing and give the out signal, and simply say "he's out". If the runner who was standing on 3B started for home before the runner who overran the bag into LF retraced back across the bag, I would call him out as soon as the stepped on the home side of 3B.

[Peruvian]

Originally posted by greymule
The play at 3B isn't really the same, since runners cannot overrun when retreating, but did the preceding runner stay in the (extended) baseline, or retreat slightly toward 2B such that the following runner "passed" him?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mcrowder
My question is about whether this is actually passing or not. A runner who "overruns third" when returning to third ends up in left field, right? That is not (necessarily) closer to 2nd base than the 3rd base bag is, so I'm not sure you have an overrun here unless he overruns it and takes a step toward 2nd. Standing in left field is simply OFF third base, not BEHIND third base with respect to whether the next runner has passed him or not.

Yes, he stayed in the extended baseline. And, yes, I thought about the same situation at first base and came to the conclusion that it was not the same thing.

My theory was that 'literally', the runner advancing from 2nd was now in front of the runner who occupied third, so there had to be an infraction, and an out.

Like I said, I'd never seen passing in this fashion before (actually at the bag, not between bags), so I called what I thought to be correct. I'm still not sure if I made the correct call, but I did get an out in a blowout game, so that has to mean something!

Incidentally, the preceding runner was also their first baseman, and during casual discussions the next half inning, he couldn't explain why he overran the bag (by 2 steps, at least). Just said it was stupid on his part.

{{EDIT}} Let me add that when the preceding runner overran the bag, he then crossed back in front of the following runner and they crossed the plate in their proper order. Don't know if that means anything, but it may clarify.

[Edited by Peruvian on Jul 9th, 2004 at 10:46 AM]

[Bigblu2u]

Just curious. Did R3 retouch 3rd after overrunning it? If R2 was already on the bag, did R3 step around him, or step on the bag to get in front of R2 to score in the proper order.

[Peruvian]

Originally posted by Bigblu2u
Did R3 retouch 3rd after overrunning it?

Yes, pretty much like you said.

[Bigblu2u]

Peruvian, you said that R3, coming back to 3rd, overruns it. When he heads towards home the 2nd time, does he retouch 3rd after over running it. If I missed it in your post, I apologize.