Help

[RandyBrown]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Numerous times? Really? Perhaps what you think you are seeing isn't really occurring because I can say I've rarely seen this play happen where the player/team wasn't properly penalized. I could see this maybe happening when the officials on the game aren't used to above the rim play, but for any official who has even done just a few above the rim games, this shouldn't catch them off guard.

I'm relying on a lifetime of spectating, here. Maybe the rule is different in college and/or pro? That is where I would have seen most of it. I come from the land of white. I don't have a problem accepting it. I just wasn't seeing the distinction as important, as long as no hanging was done or advantage gained by the initial grab, considering that the rules allow for grasping while dunking. This struck me as one of those situations where I thought at least some of you would argue there is no violation of the intent of the rules, because there is no advantage gained.

[Welpe]

No advantage gained by a player grasping the rim with his free hand before dunking...ooookay then.

[RandyBrown]

Originally Posted by Welpe

No advantage gained by a player grasping the rim with his free hand before dunking...ooookay then.

All during the downward dunking motion. As I said previously, no hanging, no propulsion, no prolonging. Where's the advantage?

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by RandyBrown

All during the downward dunking motion. As I said previously, no hanging, no propulsion, no prolonging. Where's the advantage?

Perhaps stabilization, improved yaw, reduced pitch, upward negative thrust...who gives a Canadian nickel, it's illegal for good reason. This isn't a case where you apply the Tower Principle and I'm not really sure why you are trying to.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Perhaps stabilization, improved yaw, reduced pitch, upward negative thrust...who gives a Canadian nickel, it's illegal for good reason. This isn't a case where you apply the Tower Principle and I'm not really sure why you are trying to.

Mainly because it's not in the rule, but you're right in that TP is often applied where the rule itself doesn't call for it (3 seconds, Duke travels). And there's also the "That Guy Principal," you don't want to be the only ref in your area calling something.

[RandyBrown]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Perhaps stabilization, improved yaw, reduced pitch, upward negative thrust...who gives a Canadian nickel, it's illegal for good reason. This isn't a case where you apply the Tower Principle and I'm not really sure why you are trying to.

You are changing my play situation. I explicitly exclude advantage, and you retort by putting it into the situation. I'm not trying to apply the Tower Principle. I said I figured others would, given that there is no advantage gained IN MY SITUATION, together with the fact that grasping is allowed while dunking. I mean, we don't call grasping the rim when the attempted dunk misses, so it can't be that there is some strict rule that the ball must go through the ring before grasping is allowed--or am I wrong there, too?

[APG]

Originally Posted by RandyBrown

You are changing my play situation. I explicitly exclude advantage, and you retort by putting it into the situation. I'm not trying to apply the Tower Principle. I said I figured others would, given that there is no advantage gained IN MY SITUATION, together with the fact that grasping is allowed while dunking. I mean, we don't call grasping the rim when the attempted dunk misses, so it can't be that there is some strict rule that the ball must go through the ring before grasping is allowed--or am I wrong there, too?

A player is not allowed to grasp the basket unless he's doing so to prevent injury or his hand is legally in contact with the ball in the process of dunking or stuffing the ball...otherwise it's a technical foul...period. What is hard to understand about that? Why are you the only one having an issue with the rule? How is it that everyone else understands this simple rule?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

A player is not allowed to grasp the basket unless he's doing so to prevent injury or his hand is legally in contact with the ball in the process of dunking or stuffing the ball...otherwise it's a technical foul...period. What is hard to understand about that? Why are you the only one having an issue with the rule? How is it that everyone else understands this simple rule?

Dunking does not legally allow a player to grasp the rim.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by RandyBrown

You are changing my play situation. I explicitly exclude advantage, and you retort by putting it into the situation.

You left an important factor out which I included but that is really neither here nor there.

I'm not trying to apply the Tower Principle. I said I figured others would,

You sure seem to be arguing that we should be but since others aren't saying to, what does that tell you? Is your first thought that we are all wrong?

[APG]

Originally Posted by RandyBrown

I'm relying on a lifetime of spectating, here. Maybe the rule is different in college and/or pro? That is where I would have seen most of it. I come from the land of white. I don't have a problem accepting it. I just wasn't seeing the distinction as important, as long as no hanging was done or advantage gained by the initial grab, considering that the rules allow for grasping while dunking. This struck me as one of those situations where I thought at least some of you would argue there is no violation of the intent of the rules, because there is no advantage gained.

This play isn't legal at any level. The rule is the same under NCAA rules I believe. Under NBA rules, this would be an illegal assist in scoring violation...not a technical foul. The ball would be awarded to the defense at the free throw line extended.

Again I say, what you think you are viewing must not be what is happening. No official is going to allow a player to grasp the rim clearly with his off-hand and dunk the ball with the other hand...I promise you if I allowed this to happen in a game, the entire team on defense, the bench, the coach, the person at the snack bar getting popcorn...everyone would give me hell for this, because everyone knows you can't do this...the dunker would probably have a look on his face knowing he got away with one.

Haven't you yourself said you've only been officiating for at most two years? I'd be very careful in trying to determine what is and isn't the intent of the rules...the replies you get on the forum come from those that have been doing this a lot longer than you and I have. I would concentrate more on knowing the rules inside and out, mechanics, and how to properly enforce the rules.

[Adam]

That reminds me.

Popcorn sounds good.