Thoughts on Technical Foul

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Welpe

I'm not saying I'd T it (I might but I'll go with HTBT). What I am saying is that the conduct of one official towards another that is working should be higher than that of the casual fan or coach. I'm sure you'd agree with me on that.

I agree and I think what Cat did is an example of that higher conduct. He didn't fly off the handle but quietly disagreed. Had the referee not called a T, no one would have been the wiser. (Also, does it bother anyone one else that Cat was charged with a T and no one came and told him to put the seat belt on?)

However, you cannot actually hold an official/coach to a higher standard. If you do, you are creating an unfair playing field and disadvantaging the team he is coaching.

"That's bad officiating" is not a phrase I'd ever take offense to. It's not personal. ("You're a bad official" is personal.) The tone and conduct of the coach might deserve a T, but it would be the delivery and not the message at fault.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

I agree and I think what Cat did is an example of that higher conduct. He didn't fly off the handle but quietly disagreed. Had the referee not called a T, no one would have been the wiser. (Also, does it bother anyone one else that Cat was charged with a T and no one came and told him to put the seat belt on?)

Nope. He knew, and simply sat down. No one needed to tell him.

And that's not higher conduct to not "fly off the handle," it's what is expected. You going to give him credit for breathing, too?

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Nope. He knew, and simply sat down. No one needed to tell him.

And that's not higher conduct to not "fly off the handle," it's what is expected. You going to give him credit for breathing, too?

If the standard conduct is flying off the handle (and around here it is) and someone doesn't do that, yes, that's higher conduct. I'm not sure why that's hard to see.

So, would you whack a coach without telling him you did so?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

If the standard conduct is flying off the handle (and around here it is) and someone doesn't do that, yes, that's higher conduct. I'm not sure why that's hard to see.

I guess it's not the standard here, where the standard for officials is to deal with such conduct. Hopefully, that's not so hard to see.

You're right, though, if all the other coaches get away with being azzholes, and this coach doesn't; then he gets credit for "higher conduct."

[bob jenkins]

I thought he just wanted to know what to do.

Don't yell "TO" when someone is injured. Just point out to the official that someone is injured and let the official stop the clock.

[Big2Cat]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I thought he just wanted to know what to do.

Don't yell "TO" when someone is injured. Just point out to the official that someone is injured and let the official stop the clock.

They had no clue, the people were chasing the ball, and there was a girl down and not moving. The easiest and best way to get her help was so simply yell, "timeout".

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Big2Cat

They had no clue, the people were chasing the ball, and there was a girl down and not moving. The easiest and best way to get her help was so simply yell, "timeout".

Fair enough, but now you'll know that when you do that, you're risking actually having to use a TO.

And the other coach was an azz for insisting you get charged the TO. I would have glared at him, told him you were showing concern for his player, and put the ball in play. Of course, from the sounds of it, he'd have likely been seated by this point.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Big2Cat

They had no clue, the people were chasing the ball, and there was a girl down and not moving. The easiest and best way to get her help was so simply yell, "timeout".

Hmmmmm. No player control, it sounds like.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I guess it's not the standard here, where the standard for officials is to deal with such conduct. Hopefully, that's not so hard to see.

You're right, though, if all the other coaches get away with being azzholes, and this coach doesn't; then he gets credit for "higher conduct."

I'm not saying they get away with it, I'm saying it's the way they react.

Your standard is appears to be that an official/coach can't point an error or unfair action on the part of a referee (or do you simply T up any coach that disagrees with a call regardless of how they express it?). That's simply wrong. Cat made his point in a non-offensive way so that only the official knew he was disagreeing. If he was a regular coach we'd give him a medal. But since he's a ref, he's Ted up for it.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

I'm not saying they get away with it, I'm saying it's the way they react.

Your standard is appears to be that an official/coach can't point an error or unfair action on the part of a referee (or do you simply T up any coach that disagrees with a call regardless of how they express it?). That's simply wrong. Cat made his point in a non-offensive way so that only the official knew he was disagreeing. If he was a regular coach we'd give him a medal. But since he's a ref, he's Ted up for it.

If they react that way regularly, then they're getting away with it.

You should probably read more of my posts on this. For some reason known only to God, I was thinking he made the comment fairly loudly.

Is "that's bad officiating" the same as "you're a bad official?" Not quite, but it's a lot closer to that than it is to "that's a bad call."

If said quietly, I'll warn. If said loudly, I'll whack. If somewhere in between, he's risking a T. If he's tried the "ireftoo" junk in this game, well that's just more BS for the accumulation. Note, he's not getting a short leash because he's a ref, he's getting the short leash because he said he's a ref. The only reason to say it is to try to influence the officials; not acceptable.

Note also, I'm not saying he did this, just elaborating.

Back to "my standard." It's not that he can't disagree or even point it out, but he's not going to show me up with that comment. Like it or not, it's a show-up comment designed to put the officials in their "proper place." What if he'd said, "that's middle school officiating...."?

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

If they react that way regularly, then they're getting away with it.

You should probably read more of my posts on this. For some reason known only to God, I was thinking he made the comment fairly loudly.

Fair enough.

Is "that's bad officiating" the same as "you're a bad official?" Not quite, but it's a lot closer to that than it is to "that's a bad call."

Personally, I find "that's a bad call" and "that's bad officiating" to be functionally equivalent. That's the risk a coach takes for saying anything other than "I believe you're wrong."

If said quietly, I'll warn. If said loudly, I'll whack. If somewhere in between, he's risking a T. If he's tried the "ireftoo" junk in this game, well that's just more BS for the accumulation. Note, he's not getting a short leash because he's a ref, he's getting the short leash because he said he's a ref. The only reason to say it is to try to influence the officials; not acceptable.

Except Cat specifically said he didn't identify himself as a ref. I can see a shorter leash for someone you feel has tried to manipulate you, although I personally don't do this.

What's you opinion on a coach who you know is a ref but doesn't bring it up?

Note also, I'm not saying he did this, just elaborating.

Back to "my standard." It's not that he can't disagree or even point it out, but he's not going to show me up with that comment. Like it or not, it's a show-up comment designed to put the officials in their "proper place." What if he'd said, "that's middle school officiating...."?

I don't find it to be a show-me-up comment. If he'd said "that's middle school officiating" I'd either ignore it or say "It is a middle school game."

I readily accept that I tend to be more tolerant of coaches' behaviors than most of this board.