6th Foul, Then Technical Foul Question

[NewUmpinCT]

Hoping someone can give light to this situation. I am a 2nd yr basketball official in CT. This scenario is from a HS varsity game played Tuesday 1/13/09. I was in the stands watching the game (my son plays on the jv team). The game was close to the end. Team B won by 3 points. Team A was down by 2 points with 45 seconds left.

This is under NFHS rules of course.

Scenario:
Team A has 5 team fouls and team B has the ball. Player A1 is called for a non shooting holding foul (team's 6th foul - possession out of bounds). In his anger/frustration player A1 slams the ball to the ground and the referee calls a tech on player A1. The officials proceed to to give team B a 1 and 1 and technical foul free throws plus the ball at the division line after the 4 free throws (both ends of one and one made plus 1 of 2 tech FT's made).

My question is this:
Shouldn't Team B only have given the 2 FT's for the technical foul plus the ball? The referee ruled that the tech made team foul # 7 (which it does) thus the one and one plus the tech foul free throws. Foul # 6 was a spot throw-in foul correct? The technical was the only one warranting FT's.

Did the ref get the situation wrong? This gave Team B 2 extra points if incorrect (in an extremely close game) and changed the outcome down the stretch... Team A would have been in a tie game down the stretch rather than creating a procession to the foul line...

Please let me know what should have been done... Hope I explained it well enough...

Thanks for any and all comments and clarification. I am only trying to get better.

I am looking this up in my rule book now.

[Nevadaref]

You are correct. The official got it wrong.

The bonus is only awarded for common fouls AFTER the team has accumulated six team fouls in a half.

See the penalty section in the back of Rule 10.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by NewUmpinCT

Team A has 5 team fouls and team B has the ball. Player A1 is called for a non shooting holding foul (team's 6th foul - possession out of bounds). In his anger/frustration player A1 slams the ball to the ground and the referee calls a tech on player A1. The officials proceed to to give team B a 1 and 1 and technical foul free throws plus the ball at the division line after the 4 free throws (both ends of one and one made plus 1 of 2 tech FT's made).

Shouldn't Team B only have given the 2 FT's for the technical foul plus the ball? The referee ruled that the tech made team foul # 7 (which it does) thus the one and one plus the tech foul free throws. Foul # 6 was a spot throw-in foul correct? The technical was the only one warranting FT's.

Did the ref get the situation wrong?

The varsity official was incorrect. This was a false multiple foul. In this case just penalize the technical foul. Wait until Jeff Smith hears about this? He'll go nuts. I thought that you New Haven guys had your act together? The good news is that the New Haven board training committee is obviously doing an excellent job when a second year official knows better than some veteran varsity officials. My compliments to you, and my compliments to your training committee.

Also, welcome to the jungle, I mean, to the Forum. It will be nice to have another Forum member from the Constitution State. I grew up in the New Haven area, and spent a lot of summer days on the beautiful beaches of Milford. You've got some great officials down there, Craig Stockel, Gary Rispoli, Tony Bagnolli, Scott Mazur, and Michael, and Anthony Gamberdella. I went to high school with Craig, and Gary. Tell them Billy Mac from Amity said hello. And, of course, you have some some great basketball down there, the SCC is a great basketball super conference, both the city schools and the teams from the suburbs.

[Nevadaref]

BTW can someone cite a rule that says to award the opponent the FIRST free throw when a team commits a common foul after already having six team fouls in a half?

I believe that there is a serious oversight in the rules here.

[zm1283]

I had the exact same situation as the OP in a game last wee. I called B20 for a hold, which was the 6th team foul. He showed his displeasure after the call and I whacked him, making that the 7th team foul. My partner was a rookie and he ended up in front of the table while I was administering the free throws. I had to go explain to the coaches of Team A why they only shot two free throws AND had to tell the table several times that yes, both fouls count as team fouls and personal fouls for B20.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by zm1283

I had the exact same situation as the OP in a game last wee. I called B20 for a hold, which was the 6th team foul. He showed his displeasure after the call and I whacked him, making that the 7th team foul. My partner was a rookie and he ended up in front of the table while I was administering the free throws. I had to go explain to the coaches of Team A why they only shot two free throws AND had to tell the table several times that yes, both fouls count as team fouls and personal fouls for B20.

Clearly, you mean towards the individual foul total, but a technical foul can never count as a personal foul.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Clearly, you mean towards the individual foul total, but a technical foul can never count as a personal foul.

Yes, that's what I mean.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

BTW can someone cite a rule that says to award the opponent the FIRST free throw when a team commits a common foul after already having six team fouls in a half?

I believe that there is a serious oversight in the rules here.

This is not that unusual, but you're talking over my head.......again. I'm sure you will enlighten us soon.

[shishstripes]

Not sure what you're getting at Nevada? OP says that the common foul was the 6th foul and they shot a 1 and 1 (not two shots for a shooting, intentional, etc.). Then two shots for the tech. This could be a correctable error situation if they caught their error.

4-19-11 A false multiple foul is a situation in which there are two or more fouls by the same team and the last foul is committed before the clock is started following the first...


Summary of penalty for all fouls...
In case of a false double foul or a false multiple foul, each foul carries its own penalty. Therefore...
No free throws for each common foul before the bonus rule is in effect.
Two free throws plus ball for division line throw-in for the technical.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

BTW can someone cite a rule that says to award the opponent the FIRST free throw when a team commits a common foul after already having six team fouls in a half?

I believe that there is a serious oversight in the rules here.

My question has nothing at all to do with the OP. Although the situation in the OP is what got me thinking about it. It is a totally separate and definitely serious question. I believe that the NFHS rules writers screwed up MASSIVELY!!!

Look at how "bonus free throw" is defined in 4-8-1. The rule clearly says that it is the SECOND free throw awarded, IF THE FIRST free throw is successful. So what do we call that FIRST free throw? (The PENALTY, perhaps.) And what rule tells us to award it? I don't see one in the book.

It seems to me that there was an oversight in defining the bonus this way. The penalty section following 10-6 says to award the bonus free throw, if the first one is successful on the teams 7th, 8th, and 9th team fouls, yet no where in that penalty section is the official instructed BY RULE to award that FIRST free throw!

We need another sentence in #2 stating to award one free throw for team fouls 7, 8, and 9. It's just not there.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

It seems to me that there was an oversight in defining the bonus this way.

Was it correctly in the rules at one time, and then, as a result of an error in editing, got accidentally deleted, until you spotted the "error"? Isn't that what happened to the "line up" rule? It was accidentally edited out and then put back.

[Adam]

I wish I understood the logic behind this error that keeps getting made.

Wait, never mind. I don't wish that at all.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Was it correctly in the rules at one time, and then, as a result of an error in editing, got accidentally deleted, until you spotted the "error"? Isn't that what happened to the "line up" rule? It was accidentally edited out and then put back.

I doubt that anything was accidentally deleted. I expect that "bonus" used to be defined as 1 + 1 or 2 (depending on the team fouls). Then some genius realized that, in 1 + 1, only the second FT is a bonus.

The attempt to fix the rule, which wasn't really broken, broke it.

[just another ref]

I guess he's right.




I guess he has too much time on his hands.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I guess he's right.

It is not often that one can find an error of such magnitude in the rules book. The missing rule is needed in just about every game!

Originally Posted by just another ref

I guess he has too much time on his hands.