Thoughts on Technical Foul

[tref]

Originally Posted by Big2Cat

I am an official, but I also coach a junior high team.

Here we go

Originally Posted by Big2Cat

Tonight, we were up 7 with about 30 seconds left. We got the rebound, and a girl from the other team went down hard. She's under the basket and not moving as we dribble up court--the officials have no clue.

I quickly yell timeout and point at the girl. The ref blows his whistle and calls the other coach out. After a few minutes, she is helped off and of course the crowd claps for her. The opposing coach then asks (and I am stunned by this) if I am going to be charged for a timeout. The official decides to charge me.Now, had this been my assignment,

But its not!!

Originally Posted by Big2Cat

I would have taken an official's timeout all the way to help the injured player. As the official comes to report it, I express my displeasure since I was helping them with an injured girl. Getting charged a timeout really doesn't matter--I would still have 1 or 2 left and the game is all but over. However, I just couldn't get by the principle of it all and tell the gentleman that I think him charging me a timeout is "really bad officiating", then walked away.

So... you're a member of the fraternity, swinging both ways as you play a role on the other side, in an off-season under-classman girls game, up by 7 with less than 30 seconds to play, with the ball in your f/c, 1 or 2 TOs remaining & you couldn't contain yourself?!?!?!
You're gonna show up a fellow brother in game you're gonna obviously win??
A cant believe how many passes you got on this post, I'll keep it real though!

Originally Posted by Big2Cat

He then apparently gives me a T. Never told me...just charged it, waited for the timeout to end and lined up to shoot it. I figured it out from my girls who told me.

I didn't say one word about it.

Although when I whack one of you "I ref too coaches" the entire gym will know it, this obviously inexperienced official did not have to "tell" you
Is that what you do when you play the role of a ref?
Do you run & tell them how many TOs they have remaining too?

THATS WHAT YOU SHOULD'VE DONE ON THE INCORRECT DECISION TO CHARGE YOU THE TO, COACH -errrr- REF!

Originally Posted by Big2Cat

Anyhow, two thoughts. Would you charge a team a timeout in that situation, or make it an official timeout. I know I said I would make that an official timeout.

Since you know how it should be charged, the correct way would've been to approach the official after the game & explain it as a brother (you know, I ref too) then maybe point him in the direction of an association/camp.

Originally Posted by Big2Cat

Do you agree with the T? Saying it's bad officiating and walking away? No name calling, nothing personal. Just disagreement with how it was handled.

It all depends!!
In a wreck environment, I admit my mistakes just like I would in a real game. Due to lower fees, horrible play, terrible coaching strategies & more hours of enduring idiot fans/coaches/players without a lockerroom to get a break from them, my tolerance level sure isn't the same!

In a real game, I might let a coach off with a warning for blasting me then walking away.
But at the level you "coach" I hardly think so, ref

I cant believe you even brought this one to the forum!! You've been here before & you know how we get down. Respect the craft, no matter what role you decide to play from day to day.
That goes for you ref/players too!

[Big2Cat]

Originally Posted by tref

Although when I whack one of you "I ref too coaches" the entire gym will know it, this obviously inexperienced official did not have to "tell"

Yup, Defcon 1 for sure. You are assuming I was ranting and raving and screaming. Wrong. I simply told him in a normal conversation it was bad officiating. I like how I am held to a higher standard of other coaches because I officiate. Why? Because I know the rules? Or because I know how hard the job is? As many other officials in here will tell you, please show me that in the rulebook.

I hold officials to a high standard because that is what the job requires. When officials tell me it isn't a backcourt violation because both feet and the ball didn't go into the backcourt, it gets frustrating and I do explain after the game they have the rule backwards.

Anyhow, instead of just answering the question in general:

1) would you charge the timeout
2) would that be a T

you and Nevada instead decide to make character judgments about me and come up with some "fraternity" stuff. Just like what, police should look the other way when another police officer commits an illegal act? Give me a break.

The best part, tref, is that you will then BECOME the show. You will make sure the entire gym knows it! Gosh, I would love to come watch some of your games. I bet you think people come to watch you.

Newsflash.

They don't.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Big2Cat

Yup, Defcon 1 for sure. You are assuming I was ranting and raving and screaming. Wrong. I simply told him in a normal conversation it was bad officiating. I like how I am held to a higher standard of other coaches because I officiate.

Sorry coach, but this is news to you? Of course you are.

[Big2Cat]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Sorry coach, but this is news to you? Of course you are.

Show me the rule.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Big2Cat

Show me the rule.

I'm not talking about in the game where you are subject the official's judgment, I am talking about in how you interact with your officials, as was tref, Nevada and everybody else that commented about it.

It's not a rule, it's an expectation of professional courtesy even if you are not being shown any in return. Of course we, as officials, hold our fellow brothers and sisters in stripes to a higher standard when it comes to conduct within our own ranks. We have enough problems with the ignorant and uniformed. I'm actually surprised that this surprises you.

[Big2Cat]

Originally Posted by Welpe

I'm not talking about in the game where you are subject the official's judgment, I am talking about in how you interact with your officials, as was tref, Nevada and everybody else that commented about it.

It's not a rule, it's an expectation of professional courtesy even if you are not being shown any in return. Of course we, as officials, hold our fellow brothers and sisters in stripes to a higher standard when it comes to conduct within our own ranks. We have enough problems with the ignorant and uniformed. I'm actually surprised that this surprises you.

Okay, I misunderstood. Sorry. I didn't argue a call this game. The other coach was on him all game, even on the floor yelling at him. I think it was a culmination of everything and I got stuck at the end.

You are correct Welpe.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Welpe

I'm not talking about in the game where you are subject the official's judgment, I am talking about in how you interact with your officials, as was tref, Nevada and everybody else that commented about it.

Am I one of the "everybody else"? I commented on it.

Sorry, Nevada, Snaqs,Welpe, Tref, et al, I just do not agree with you. Imo saying "That's bad officiating" in that situation is no different than saying "That's bad officiating" after a travel call. It's exactly the same as saying "That's a bad call" or "You missed that one." If that's a one-off comment made quietly and without putting on a show, there is nowayinhell I'm ever calling an immediate "T" on that one. Maybe a warning...with the emphasis on "maybe". And I don't care whether the perp is an official or not, or whether it's grade school either.

I'm known as a law'n'order guy too, but that's just taking things way too far imo.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Am I one of the "everybody else"? I commented on it.

Sorry, Nevada, Snaqs,Welpe, Tref, et al, I just do not agree with you. Imo saying "That's bad officiating" in that situation is no different than saying "That's bad officiating" after a travel call. It's exactly the same as saying "That's a bad call" or "You missed that one." If that's a one-off comment made quietly and without putting on a show, there is nowayinhell I'm ever calling an immediate "T" on that one. Maybe a warning...with the emphasis on "maybe". And I don't care whether the perp is an official or not, or whether it's grade school either.

I'm known as a law'n'order guy too, but that's just taking things way too far imo.

"That's a bad call" isn't, IMO, the same as "that's bad officiating." Disagree if you want, but that's beyond my line. Making the comment, as an official, is risking a T in this situation.

Since in this situation, I'd have stayed back as Trail and probably killed the play early in a ms girls game, it's hard to say how I'd respond. If I missed the injury and the opposing coach gave me the heads up, I'd be grateful and wouldn't charge the TO.

However, if I was L and my partner charged the TO, only to have the coach snap, "that's bad officiating," I'd be more likely than not to ring him up.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Am I one of the "everybody else"? I commented on it.

Sorry, Nevada, Snaqs,Welpe, Tref, et al, I just do not agree with you. Imo saying "That's bad officiating" in that situation is no different than saying "That's bad officiating" after a travel call. It's exactly the same as saying "That's a bad call" or "You missed that one." If that's a one-off comment made quietly and without putting on a show, there is nowayinhell I'm ever calling an immediate "T" on that one. Maybe a warning...with the emphasis on "maybe". And I don't care whether the perp is an official or not, or whether it's grade school either.

I'm known as a law'n'order guy too, but that's just taking things way too far imo.

I'm not saying I'd T it (I might but I'll go with HTBT). What I am saying is that the conduct of one official towards another that is working should be higher than that of the casual fan or coach. I'm sure you'd agree with me on that.

Nobody is perfect and just recently I violated this standard too at a minor league hockey game and I'm ashamed I did. It was humbling and I beat myself up on it pretty good for acting like Joe Six Pack the Ignorant Fan.

We really need to support our fellow officials out there working, no matter what capacity and level. Sure there are bad eggs but we would like the same in return. There are too few of us taking far too much garbage, let's try and make sure we're not adding to the heap.

That's all I'm saying.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Welpe

I'm not talking about in the game where you are subject the official's judgment, I am talking about in how you interact with your officials, as was tref, Nevada and everybody else that commented about it.

It's not a rule, it's an expectation of professional courtesy even if you are not being shown any in return. Of course we, as officials, hold our fellow brothers and sisters in stripes to a higher standard when it comes to conduct within our own ranks. We have enough problems with the ignorant and uniformed. I'm actually surprised that this surprises you.

Is there an 'n', Pat?

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

Is there an 'n', Pat?

I was talking about ignorant people in uniforms...what are you talking about?




That Mr. Annoying Spelling Guy sure gets around.

[Big2Cat]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Sorry coach, but this is news to you? Of course you are.

So, what you are basically saying is that you will give another coach more leeway and hit me harder because I also officiate.

Therefore, you have no decided to give the other coach and advantage and already taken away your role as impartial official who is there to keep things fair.

Well done. And if you never know I also officiate, now what?

[APG]

Originally Posted by Big2Cat

So, what you are basically saying is that you will give another coach more leeway and hit me harder because I also officiate.

Therefore, you have no decided to give the other coach and advantage and already taken away your role as impartial official who is there to keep things fair.

Well done. And if you never know I also officiate, now what?

I don't believe he meant in-game that he would hold an official to a higher standard. Rather, when we have stories here about officials in a coaching role, we expect better of them because you know what it's like to be on the other end of the stick. If you want to see an example of that, search for a thread that poster Judtech started where he went off on the officials and the whole forum went off on him.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

I don't believe he meant in-game that he would hold an official to a higher standard. Rather, when we have stories here about officials in a coaching rule, we expect better of them because you know what it's like to be on the other end of the stick. If you want to see an example of that, search for a thread that poster Judtech started where he went off on the officials and the whole forum went off on him.

There was one exception.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Big2Cat

So, what you are basically saying is that you will give another coach more leeway and hit me harder because I also officiate.

Never said that, you are inferring quite a bit. I already explained my comment. But if you are making it a point to tell me you are an official, my leash is already getting shorter on what I'm allowing you to get away with.

Therefore, you have no decided to give the other coach and advantage and already taken away your role as impartial official who is there to keep things fair.

Well done.

With the way you are willing to address fellow officials, I'm not surprised you got stuck. Too bad he didn't toss you too.