Thoughts on Technical Foul

[Big2Cat]

I am an official, but I also coach a junior high team. Tonight, we were up 7 with about 30 seconds left. We got the rebound, and a girl from the other team went down hard. She's under the basket and not moving as we dribble up court--the officials have no clue.

I quickly yell timeout and point at the girl. The ref blows his whistle and calls the other coach out. After a few minutes, she is helped off and of course the crowd claps for her. The opposing coach then asks (and I am stunned by this) if I am going to be charged for a timeout. The official decides to charge me.

Now, had this been my assignment, I would have taken an official's timeout all the way to help the injured player. As the official comes to report it, I express my displeasure since I was helping them with an injured girl. Getting charged a timeout really doesn't matter--I would still have 1 or 2 left and the game is all but over. However, I just couldn't get by the principle of it all and tell the gentleman that I think him charging me a timeout is "really bad officiating", then walked away. He then apparently gives me a T. Never told me...just charged it, waited for the timeout to end and lined up to shoot it. I figured it out from my girls who told me. I didn't say one word about it.

Anyhow, two thoughts. Would you charge a team a timeout in that situation, or make it an official timeout. I know I said I would make that an official timeout.

Do you agree with the T? Saying it's bad officiating and walking away? No name calling, nothing personal. Just disagreement with how it was handled.

[JugglingReferee]

If a coach, while on offense, alerts me to an injured opponent (whether known or unknown by the officials), my interpretation immediately becomes that they are giving up their offensive drive and I can't see not killing the play immediately.

No, I would not call a team timeout in the situation as you described. I would go with an official's timeout.

Note that an official doesn't have to "tell the perpetrator" about a foul call. Any voicing of a foul is done in a general sense to anyone that is interested. The only official direct conversation is directed to the scorekeeper. However, any dead ball T I call will likely have a whistle from me with a clear voice reporting the foul. IOW, the coach will surely know that he was T'd up.

I would not T a coach up for saying that something is "really bad officiating". Now, if he was a case of ABS, I most definitely would consider it.

[APG]

Would I charge a timeout in this situation? Nope...I would retroactively make it an official's timeout.

I probably wouldn't assess a technical foul either for your comment unless it was an ABS T like Juggling said. If I were to give a T, I'm blowing the whistle and giving the signal and using my voice to alert of a technical foul. I have a hard time thinking of a situation where a coach would not know that I've assessed him with a T.

[Nevadaref]

I would go with an injury time-out and not one to either team.

Your comment was out of line and I would have issued you a technical foul for it.

Next time that an inexperienced official does something which you don't like remain calm, keep your composure, and don't say anything. Most of the officials for younger kids games are learning. You can give your thoughts after the game in a cordial manner, if you wish.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I would go with an injury time-out and not one to either team.

Your comment was out of line and I would have issued you a technical foul for it.

And another "T" if the girl's mother came out of the stands to check out why her daughter that wasn't moving....

Right?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Big2Cat

1) Would you charge a team a timeout in that situation, or make it an official timeout.

2)Do you agree with the T?

1) Injury TO not charged to either team

2) No

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Your comment was out of line and I would have issued you a technical foul for it.

If the comment was "charging a time out there is really bad officiating" I do not regard that as personal (and indeed might be true), so it would not warrant a T.

If the official heard you say something along the lines of "you guys are really bad officials," that IS personal, and would warrant a T. You might have made the call more difficult by turning your back and mumbling your comment, which is usually evidence that it's T-worthy.

JMO, but that's how I would draw the line.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Big2Cat

I am an official, ...

As the official comes to report it, I express my displeasure since I was helping them with an injured girl.

However, I just couldn't get by the principle of it all and tell the gentleman that I think him charging me a timeout is "really bad officiating",...

Do you agree with the T? Saying it's bad officiating and walking away?

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

2) No

Wow! JR, you are okay with an official treating a fellow official in this manner!?!? Have you gotten soft in your old age?

[APG]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

And another "T" if the girl's mother came out of the stands to check out why her daughter that wasn't moving....

Right?

Hahahaha!

Do we get two T's there if the mother and father come out?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Wow! JR, you are okay with an official treating a fellow official in this manner!?!? Have you gotten soft in your old age?

Nevada, under those particular circumstances I doubt that I would have called a "T" in my young or middle ages either. The coach complained once about a call. And he didn't put on a show or prolong that complaint. I realize that all unsporting "T"s are judgment calls, but that one doesn't equate as being overly egregious to me. Maybe a warning. Sometimes.

And then again, maybe the coach was spot on. It was bad officiating to charge him with a TO imo also.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Nevada, under those particular circumstances I doubt that I would have called a "T" in my young or middle ages either. The coach complained once about a call. And he didn't put on a show or prolong that complaint. I realize that all unsporting "T"s are judgment calls, but that one doesn't equate as being overly egregious to me. Maybe a warning. Sometimes.

And then again, maybe the coach was spot on. It was bad officiating to charge him with a TO imo also.

The coach was right about everything, except the way that he conducted himself. Telling an official that a decision is "really bad officiating" is greatly disrespectful and worthy of a technical foul. I'm really disappointed that such would come from someone who wears the stripes himself.

[Adam]

I'm with Nevada on this one, especially in a middle school game (some may disagree with that part).

I would not have charged the TO, but the "official" who was coaching ought to realize that any official who charges this TO is working "by the book" and isn't likely to be willing to take any grief in this situation. His emotions are up, he's already defensive, and he's likely to react this way. I have no real problem with the T, either.

I'm sorry, but saying "that's bad officiating" is personal, IMO.

Coach, next time, just get the official's attention and point to the injured player.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Big2Cat

The opposing coach then asks (and I am stunned by this) if I am going to be charged for a timeout.

Just my two cents, but this might be the first domino.

Had the opposing coach not questioned it (and I certainly don't blame you for being stunned), perhaps you may have not been charged, as the official would just let it go. (Most of us would.) However, since the opposing coach indeed did question it, and you did call the time-out, perhaps the official thought, "he's got me there."

As for the technical foul, I'm with Juggling. I'd only T it up for an ABS, though I can see why others would. It could come down to a choice of words. Next time, go with "I don't agree with that at all." I can't think of a time where that alone would be t-worthy.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Big2Cat

I am an official, but I also coach a junior high team.

Here we go

Originally Posted by Big2Cat

Tonight, we were up 7 with about 30 seconds left. We got the rebound, and a girl from the other team went down hard. She's under the basket and not moving as we dribble up court--the officials have no clue.

I quickly yell timeout and point at the girl. The ref blows his whistle and calls the other coach out. After a few minutes, she is helped off and of course the crowd claps for her. The opposing coach then asks (and I am stunned by this) if I am going to be charged for a timeout. The official decides to charge me.Now, had this been my assignment,

But its not!!

Originally Posted by Big2Cat

I would have taken an official's timeout all the way to help the injured player. As the official comes to report it, I express my displeasure since I was helping them with an injured girl. Getting charged a timeout really doesn't matter--I would still have 1 or 2 left and the game is all but over. However, I just couldn't get by the principle of it all and tell the gentleman that I think him charging me a timeout is "really bad officiating", then walked away.

So... you're a member of the fraternity, swinging both ways as you play a role on the other side, in an off-season under-classman girls game, up by 7 with less than 30 seconds to play, with the ball in your f/c, 1 or 2 TOs remaining & you couldn't contain yourself?!?!?!
You're gonna show up a fellow brother in game you're gonna obviously win??
A cant believe how many passes you got on this post, I'll keep it real though!

Originally Posted by Big2Cat

He then apparently gives me a T. Never told me...just charged it, waited for the timeout to end and lined up to shoot it. I figured it out from my girls who told me.

I didn't say one word about it.

Although when I whack one of you "I ref too coaches" the entire gym will know it, this obviously inexperienced official did not have to "tell" you
Is that what you do when you play the role of a ref?
Do you run & tell them how many TOs they have remaining too?

THATS WHAT YOU SHOULD'VE DONE ON THE INCORRECT DECISION TO CHARGE YOU THE TO, COACH -errrr- REF!

Originally Posted by Big2Cat

Anyhow, two thoughts. Would you charge a team a timeout in that situation, or make it an official timeout. I know I said I would make that an official timeout.

Since you know how it should be charged, the correct way would've been to approach the official after the game & explain it as a brother (you know, I ref too) then maybe point him in the direction of an association/camp.

Originally Posted by Big2Cat

Do you agree with the T? Saying it's bad officiating and walking away? No name calling, nothing personal. Just disagreement with how it was handled.

It all depends!!
In a wreck environment, I admit my mistakes just like I would in a real game. Due to lower fees, horrible play, terrible coaching strategies & more hours of enduring idiot fans/coaches/players without a lockerroom to get a break from them, my tolerance level sure isn't the same!

In a real game, I might let a coach off with a warning for blasting me then walking away.
But at the level you "coach" I hardly think so, ref

I cant believe you even brought this one to the forum!! You've been here before & you know how we get down. Respect the craft, no matter what role you decide to play from day to day.
That goes for you ref/players too!

[tref]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Next time, go with "I don't agree with that at all." I can't think of a time where that alone would be t-worthy.

No disrespect to you, but how about next time he just STFU. I mean, seeing how his girls team is up by 7 with less than 30 seconds to play & 1 or 2 TOs remaining, with the ball in his f/c and all.
Oh did I mention that he belonged to our frat?