Thoughts on Technical Foul

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Wow! JR, you are okay with an official treating a fellow official in this manner!?!? Have you gotten soft in your old age?

Nevada, under those particular circumstances I doubt that I would have called a "T" in my young or middle ages either. The coach complained once about a call. And he didn't put on a show or prolong that complaint. I realize that all unsporting "T"s are judgment calls, but that one doesn't equate as being overly egregious to me. Maybe a warning. Sometimes.

And then again, maybe the coach was spot on. It was bad officiating to charge him with a TO imo also.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Nevada, under those particular circumstances I doubt that I would have called a "T" in my young or middle ages either. The coach complained once about a call. And he didn't put on a show or prolong that complaint. I realize that all unsporting "T"s are judgment calls, but that one doesn't equate as being overly egregious to me. Maybe a warning. Sometimes.

And then again, maybe the coach was spot on. It was bad officiating to charge him with a TO imo also.

The coach was right about everything, except the way that he conducted himself. Telling an official that a decision is "really bad officiating" is greatly disrespectful and worthy of a technical foul. I'm really disappointed that such would come from someone who wears the stripes himself.

[Adam]

I'm with Nevada on this one, especially in a middle school game (some may disagree with that part).

I would not have charged the TO, but the "official" who was coaching ought to realize that any official who charges this TO is working "by the book" and isn't likely to be willing to take any grief in this situation. His emotions are up, he's already defensive, and he's likely to react this way. I have no real problem with the T, either.

I'm sorry, but saying "that's bad officiating" is personal, IMO.

Coach, next time, just get the official's attention and point to the injured player.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The coach was right about everything, except the way that he conducted himself. Telling an official that a decision is "really bad officiating" is greatly disrespectful and worthy of a technical foul. I'm really disappointed that such would come from someone who wears the stripes himself.

You must call a helluva lot of technical fouls if you call one every time something disrespectful is said.

[deecee]

I dont get why officials who coach are treated different?

I treat a coach as a coach. His past affiliations do not matter per game. His actions during the game will dictate how i interact with him and how i deal with him as well.

I dont give anyone credit that just because they know the rules and have worn the stripes that all of a sudden they will be logical and calm when they had a stake directly in the outcome of the game.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

You must call a helluva lot of technical fouls if you call one every time something disrespectful is said.

Actually, most of the coaches know not to behave in such a manner when I am on the court at this point and so I have very few instances of disrepectful comments and the result is only a few technical fouls. It certainly makes the working environment more pleasant.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Big2Cat

The opposing coach then asks (and I am stunned by this) if I am going to be charged for a timeout.

Just my two cents, but this might be the first domino.

Had the opposing coach not questioned it (and I certainly don't blame you for being stunned), perhaps you may have not been charged, as the official would just let it go. (Most of us would.) However, since the opposing coach indeed did question it, and you did call the time-out, perhaps the official thought, "he's got me there."

As for the technical foul, I'm with Juggling. I'd only T it up for an ABS, though I can see why others would. It could come down to a choice of words. Next time, go with "I don't agree with that at all." I can't think of a time where that alone would be t-worthy.

[tref]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Next time, go with "I don't agree with that at all." I can't think of a time where that alone would be t-worthy.

No disrespect to you, but how about next time he just STFU. I mean, seeing how his girls team is up by 7 with less than 30 seconds to play & 1 or 2 TOs remaining, with the ball in his f/c and all.
Oh did I mention that he belonged to our frat?

[APG]

While I agree with your sentiment tref, I believe you've taken this comment and gone DEFCON 1 with it.

[tref]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

While I agree with your sentiment tref, I believe you've taken this comment and gone DEFCON 1 with it.

Perhaps, I've just seen too many of his kind lately & its a bit much, after working high level playoff games then hopping back on the wreck scene.

Coaches that ref too...
Players that ref too...
Mommas that ref too...
Daddys that ref too...
Little cousins whose uncles, yeah, ref too...

My point is, if you do ref too:

1. You are still held to a higher standard while coaching/playing.
2. You're not working THIS game, but there is an extra shirt & whistle in my bag, lets go 3!
3. Treat officials how you would like to be treated when you officiate.

[APG]

Oh I definitely agree, but I feel there's a huge difference between the statement in the OP, and say the actions of the forum poster (Judtech?) earlier who lambasted the officials and acted like the out of control coaches we talk about here. That's all I was really saying.

[Big2Cat]

A few things. I never pulled any type of "I am an official, too" on the guy. I also know it isn't my assignment. Also, I didn't show the official up. I told him face to face, in a close conversation where the only person that might have heard was the scorer that his decision was bad officiating. He didn't respond and I went to my huddle.

I then found out he gave me a T from my girls who were watching from the bench.

I don't show up officials. Once I got the T, I sat on the bench and didn't say a word. Although I didn't agree with his T, I respected his right to give me one and didn't argue a thing.

I think this whole "being in the fraternity" means we are perfect people and can't ever make mistakes ourselves. Plus, some of you also assumed it was a young guy. This was an older guy who does our games. In 15 years of coaching and 22 years of officiating, that is only the second T I have ever received, so please Nevada, don't make it seem like I am some Master Official trying to berate and intimidate other officials, or that I am disrespecting the fraternity. It isn't the case at all.

Had I yelled there was a player down, it would not have had the immediate effect of stopping play that yelling timeout would have. The officials had no clue and did I mention the girl was not moving?

I appreciate the feedback. I also told my girls I could have handled it better and my desire is to never, ever get a technical foul. Like I said, I didn't agree with it, but I got one. And I never, ever like to set that example for my girls.

Anyhow, bottom line is I think most of you agree it should have been an official's timeout and the T was in the 50/50 area.

Thanks, and sorry that I am not a perfect human being.

[WreckRef]

Poor game management by the official in my opinion.

As far as the T goes, you should know being an official, that every official has a different threshold when it comes to issuing a T. For example, some might not T for someone saying, "That call was horrible," but would for someone saying, "You are horrible."

As far as the timeout goes I don't see it any different than the situation I had a couple of weeks ago. A1 grabs a defensive rebound and starts bringing the ball up the floor. Coach A calls timeout. As I walk towards the table to report I notice A2 hobbling over to the bench. I ask the coach, "Do you want the timeout or just the sub for your injured player?" Coach says, "Just the sub." I hit the whistle, announce it's an official timeout, tell all of the players to come back on the floor and tell the table to not charge A with a timeout.

Final thought, now you know that you can't ask for a timeout with that official to replace an injured player he didn't see. Next time I would suggest getting the officials attention by saying something like, "Ref, there's an injured player," and point to him/her.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Big2Cat

I am an official, but I also coach a junior high team.

Here we go

Originally Posted by Big2Cat

Tonight, we were up 7 with about 30 seconds left. We got the rebound, and a girl from the other team went down hard. She's under the basket and not moving as we dribble up court--the officials have no clue.

I quickly yell timeout and point at the girl. The ref blows his whistle and calls the other coach out. After a few minutes, she is helped off and of course the crowd claps for her. The opposing coach then asks (and I am stunned by this) if I am going to be charged for a timeout. The official decides to charge me.Now, had this been my assignment,

But its not!!

Originally Posted by Big2Cat

I would have taken an official's timeout all the way to help the injured player. As the official comes to report it, I express my displeasure since I was helping them with an injured girl. Getting charged a timeout really doesn't matter--I would still have 1 or 2 left and the game is all but over. However, I just couldn't get by the principle of it all and tell the gentleman that I think him charging me a timeout is "really bad officiating", then walked away.

So... you're a member of the fraternity, swinging both ways as you play a role on the other side, in an off-season under-classman girls game, up by 7 with less than 30 seconds to play, with the ball in your f/c, 1 or 2 TOs remaining & you couldn't contain yourself?!?!?!
You're gonna show up a fellow brother in game you're gonna obviously win??
A cant believe how many passes you got on this post, I'll keep it real though!

Originally Posted by Big2Cat

He then apparently gives me a T. Never told me...just charged it, waited for the timeout to end and lined up to shoot it. I figured it out from my girls who told me.

I didn't say one word about it.

Although when I whack one of you "I ref too coaches" the entire gym will know it, this obviously inexperienced official did not have to "tell" you
Is that what you do when you play the role of a ref?
Do you run & tell them how many TOs they have remaining too?

THATS WHAT YOU SHOULD'VE DONE ON THE INCORRECT DECISION TO CHARGE YOU THE TO, COACH -errrr- REF!

Originally Posted by Big2Cat

Anyhow, two thoughts. Would you charge a team a timeout in that situation, or make it an official timeout. I know I said I would make that an official timeout.

Since you know how it should be charged, the correct way would've been to approach the official after the game & explain it as a brother (you know, I ref too) then maybe point him in the direction of an association/camp.

Originally Posted by Big2Cat

Do you agree with the T? Saying it's bad officiating and walking away? No name calling, nothing personal. Just disagreement with how it was handled.

It all depends!!
In a wreck environment, I admit my mistakes just like I would in a real game. Due to lower fees, horrible play, terrible coaching strategies & more hours of enduring idiot fans/coaches/players without a lockerroom to get a break from them, my tolerance level sure isn't the same!

In a real game, I might let a coach off with a warning for blasting me then walking away.
But at the level you "coach" I hardly think so, ref

I cant believe you even brought this one to the forum!! You've been here before & you know how we get down. Respect the craft, no matter what role you decide to play from day to day.
That goes for you ref/players too!

[Big2Cat]

Originally Posted by tref

Although when I whack one of you "I ref too coaches" the entire gym will know it, this obviously inexperienced official did not have to "tell"

Yup, Defcon 1 for sure. You are assuming I was ranting and raving and screaming. Wrong. I simply told him in a normal conversation it was bad officiating. I like how I am held to a higher standard of other coaches because I officiate. Why? Because I know the rules? Or because I know how hard the job is? As many other officials in here will tell you, please show me that in the rulebook.

I hold officials to a high standard because that is what the job requires. When officials tell me it isn't a backcourt violation because both feet and the ball didn't go into the backcourt, it gets frustrating and I do explain after the game they have the rule backwards.

Anyhow, instead of just answering the question in general:

1) would you charge the timeout
2) would that be a T

you and Nevada instead decide to make character judgments about me and come up with some "fraternity" stuff. Just like what, police should look the other way when another police officer commits an illegal act? Give me a break.

The best part, tref, is that you will then BECOME the show. You will make sure the entire gym knows it! Gosh, I would love to come watch some of your games. I bet you think people come to watch you.

Newsflash.

They don't.