Thoughts on Technical Foul

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Welpe

What I am saying is that the conduct of one official towards another that is working should be higher than that of the casual fan or coach. I'm sure you'd agree with me on that.

I do agree with that. But there are degrees of that too also imo. This is a long way from the actions of the Judtechs of the world imo. I personally don't think that what Cat did in this particular situation was particularly unsporting in nature. I took it as simply as just a one-off quiet and quick complaint about a call. Others might look at it differently. That's why any coach or player takes their chances when they complain. They have to know their audience.

Imo in this particular situation, issuing a "T" is like hitting an ant with a sledgehammer. But that's jmo.

[tref]

I respect that JR!

But when was the last time you called or watched youth/wreck ball?
Some of those ants deserve the Acme anvil, especially during March!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by tref

But when was the last time you called or watched youth/wreck ball?
Some of those ants deserve the Acme anvil, especially during March!

Oh, about a week ago........and this coming weekend we have a couple of tournaments to cover too....

And yes, we do have some concerns locally here about the antics of some of these daddy club coaches and their players and fans. We do NOT want our officials to take any crap from them and we'll back them 104.6%. But we also do try to treat each incident on it's own merits. And imo that's how Cat's situation should be treated also.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Welpe

I'm not saying I'd T it (I might but I'll go with HTBT). What I am saying is that the conduct of one official towards another that is working should be higher than that of the casual fan or coach. I'm sure you'd agree with me on that.

I agree and I think what Cat did is an example of that higher conduct. He didn't fly off the handle but quietly disagreed. Had the referee not called a T, no one would have been the wiser. (Also, does it bother anyone one else that Cat was charged with a T and no one came and told him to put the seat belt on?)

However, you cannot actually hold an official/coach to a higher standard. If you do, you are creating an unfair playing field and disadvantaging the team he is coaching.

"That's bad officiating" is not a phrase I'd ever take offense to. It's not personal. ("You're a bad official" is personal.) The tone and conduct of the coach might deserve a T, but it would be the delivery and not the message at fault.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Welpe

I'm not talking about in the game where you are subject the official's judgment, I am talking about in how you interact with your officials, as was tref, Nevada and everybody else that commented about it.

It's not a rule, it's an expectation of professional courtesy even if you are not being shown any in return. Of course we, as officials, hold our fellow brothers and sisters in stripes to a higher standard when it comes to conduct within our own ranks. We have enough problems with the ignorant and uniformed. I'm actually surprised that this surprises you.

Is there an 'n', Pat?

[tref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Oh, about a week ago........and this coming weekend we have a couple of tournaments to cover too....

And yes, we do have some concerns locally here about the antics of some of these daddy club coaches and their players and fans. We do NOT want our officials to take any crap from them and we'll back them 104.6%. But we also do try to treat each incident on it's own merits. And imo that's how Cat's situation should be treated also.

"If" it happened like he said it did, absolutely! HTBT

Honestly, I've rarely seen one of these type of games where the coach/dad didn't say, travel 37 times, get em off 26 times all while standing outside their box using sloppy signals. They think this behavior is okay for a couple reasons:

1. The guys who regularly work their games are inexperienced & dont know any better.

2. The guys who regularly work their games are intimidated by the coaches.

Originally Posted by Eastshire

I agree and I think what Cat did is an example of that higher conduct. He didn't fly off the handle but quietly disagreed. Had the referee not called a T, no one would have been the wiser. (Also, does it bother anyone one else that Cat was charged with a T and no one came and told him to put the seat belt on?)

However, you cannot actually hold an official/coach to a higher standard. If you do, you are creating an unfair playing field and disadvantaging the team he is coaching.

No it doesn't, he seated belted himself.

We cannot really hold anyone to a higher standard, that has got to come from within each individual.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

I agree and I think what Cat did is an example of that higher conduct. He didn't fly off the handle but quietly disagreed. Had the referee not called a T, no one would have been the wiser. (Also, does it bother anyone one else that Cat was charged with a T and no one came and told him to put the seat belt on?)

Nope. He knew, and simply sat down. No one needed to tell him.

And that's not higher conduct to not "fly off the handle," it's what is expected. You going to give him credit for breathing, too?

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

Is there an 'n', Pat?

I was talking about ignorant people in uniforms...what are you talking about?




That Mr. Annoying Spelling Guy sure gets around.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Nope. He knew, and simply sat down. No one needed to tell him.

And that's not higher conduct to not "fly off the handle," it's what is expected. You going to give him credit for breathing, too?

If the standard conduct is flying off the handle (and around here it is) and someone doesn't do that, yes, that's higher conduct. I'm not sure why that's hard to see.

So, would you whack a coach without telling him you did so?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

If the standard conduct is flying off the handle (and around here it is) and someone doesn't do that, yes, that's higher conduct. I'm not sure why that's hard to see.

I guess it's not the standard here, where the standard for officials is to deal with such conduct. Hopefully, that's not so hard to see.

You're right, though, if all the other coaches get away with being azzholes, and this coach doesn't; then he gets credit for "higher conduct."

[bob jenkins]

I thought he just wanted to know what to do.

Don't yell "TO" when someone is injured. Just point out to the official that someone is injured and let the official stop the clock.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I guess it's not the standard here, where the standard for officials is to deal with such conduct. Hopefully, that's not so hard to see.

You're right, though, if all the other coaches get away with being azzholes, and this coach doesn't; then he gets credit for "higher conduct."

I'm not saying they get away with it, I'm saying it's the way they react.

Your standard is appears to be that an official/coach can't point an error or unfair action on the part of a referee (or do you simply T up any coach that disagrees with a call regardless of how they express it?). That's simply wrong. Cat made his point in a non-offensive way so that only the official knew he was disagreeing. If he was a regular coach we'd give him a medal. But since he's a ref, he's Ted up for it.

[Big2Cat]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I thought he just wanted to know what to do.

Don't yell "TO" when someone is injured. Just point out to the official that someone is injured and let the official stop the clock.

They had no clue, the people were chasing the ball, and there was a girl down and not moving. The easiest and best way to get her help was so simply yell, "timeout".

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

I'm not saying they get away with it, I'm saying it's the way they react.

Your standard is appears to be that an official/coach can't point an error or unfair action on the part of a referee (or do you simply T up any coach that disagrees with a call regardless of how they express it?). That's simply wrong. Cat made his point in a non-offensive way so that only the official knew he was disagreeing. If he was a regular coach we'd give him a medal. But since he's a ref, he's Ted up for it.

If they react that way regularly, then they're getting away with it.

You should probably read more of my posts on this. For some reason known only to God, I was thinking he made the comment fairly loudly.

Is "that's bad officiating" the same as "you're a bad official?" Not quite, but it's a lot closer to that than it is to "that's a bad call."

If said quietly, I'll warn. If said loudly, I'll whack. If somewhere in between, he's risking a T. If he's tried the "ireftoo" junk in this game, well that's just more BS for the accumulation. Note, he's not getting a short leash because he's a ref, he's getting the short leash because he said he's a ref. The only reason to say it is to try to influence the officials; not acceptable.

Note also, I'm not saying he did this, just elaborating.

Back to "my standard." It's not that he can't disagree or even point it out, but he's not going to show me up with that comment. Like it or not, it's a show-up comment designed to put the officials in their "proper place." What if he'd said, "that's middle school officiating...."?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Big2Cat

They had no clue, the people were chasing the ball, and there was a girl down and not moving. The easiest and best way to get her help was so simply yell, "timeout".

Fair enough, but now you'll know that when you do that, you're risking actually having to use a TO.

And the other coach was an azz for insisting you get charged the TO. I would have glared at him, told him you were showing concern for his player, and put the ball in play. Of course, from the sounds of it, he'd have likely been seated by this point.