Is there such an animal as a False Multiple Technical?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Team A has six team members participating, which goes unobserved by the officials. Official calls a travel violation on Team A. There are no substitutions after the whistle. Before administering the throw in, official observes that Team A (still) has six team members participating. Ball is dead, and the clock is stopped. Too late to penalize with a technical foul?

Yes, you don't know who came on last. You don't know when he came on. Best you can do is talk to the table and see if they saw him run on w/o being beckoned.

He's no more participating than the players when you normally count. You're overthinking this.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Team A has six team members participating, which goes unobserved by the officials. Official calls a travel violation on Team A. There are no substitutions after the whistle. Before administering the throw in, official observes that Team A (still) has six team members participating. Ball is dead, and the clock is stopped. Too late to penalize with a technical foul?

WTF does NFHS rule 10-1-6PENALTY(Art 6) say?

And why won't you believe it?

As I said, lah...freaking...me.....

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Yes, you don't know who came on last. .

Don't have to know who came on last, it's a team technical, not a player technical.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

NFHS rule 10-1-PENALTY(Art 6)?

If discovered (participating) while being violated. What defines whether, or not, a player is participating? Does it have to be during a live ball, clock running, situation? Can it be during a live ball, clock stopped situation, i.e., between two free throws?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Don't have to know who came on last, it's a team technical, not a player technical.

My point was the team tech isn't an option, only the sub tech if you know who.

You didn't see them participating. You saw them standing on the court.

Billy, come on. It's the same as every other time we count the players. Count them, if there are too many, fix it. It's how it's handled everywhere, and if they wanted it different they would have told us a long time ago.

[Adam]

And the point of the case play is that you can't go back and call the T retroactively, even if you think you know he had to be participating when the ball was live. If you didn't see it, you can't call it.

[BillyMac]

Snaqwells: Thanks for your patience. Not only am I still caught up on the definition of participating, but I'm also having trouble with your dead ball, clock running, post.

Team A has six players on the court. Officials are unaware of this infraction. Team A has been awarded two free throws. First free throw is missed. No substitutions are made. Before bouncing the ball to the free thrower for his second free throw, the officials realize that Team A has six players on the court. Dead ball. Clock stopped. Are all six players participating at this point? Can a technical be charged at this point, or do we just send off the extra player?

Team A has six players on the court. Officials are unaware of this infraction. Team A has been awarded two free throws. First free throw is missed. No substitutions are made. After bouncing the ball to the free thrower, and the ball at the free thrower's disposal for his second free throw, the officials realize that Team A has six players on the court. Live ball. Clock stopped. Are all six players participating at this point? Can a technical be charged at this point, or do we just send off the extra player?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Snaqwells: Thanks for your patience. Not only am I still caught up on the definition of participating, but I'm also having trouble with your dead ball, clock running, post.

Team A has six players on the court. Officials are unaware of this infraction. Team A has been awarded two free throws. First free throw is missed. No substitutions are made. Before bouncing the ball to the free thrower for his second free throw, the officials realize that Team A has six players on the court. Are all six players participating at this point? Can a technical be charged at this point, or do we just send off the extra player?

send him off. Unless you're going to say he was participating. If you say that, you need to call the T when you count 6 prior to a throw-in.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

If discovered (participating) while being violated. What defines whether, or not, a player is participating? Does it have to be during a live ball, clock running, situation? Can it be during a live ball, clock stopped situation, i.e., between two free throws?

Sigh.....

You've discovered the last secret of the universe, Billy. The NFHS did not make up an all-inclusive list of ALL situations when when players are participating. Bad NFHS rulesmakers! Bad, bad NFHS rulesmakers! Hey, how about you coming up with one? That'll give you something to do. Don't forget to post it here when you're done.

Untl then, sayonara.....

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I thought my first post answered the original question: Is there such an animal as a false multiple technical foul?

MTD, Sr.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I thought my first post answered the original question: Is there such an animal as a false multiple technical foul?

MTD, Sr.

And???

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Hey, how about you coming up with one? That'll give you something to do. Don't forget to post it here when you're done.

Live ball?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Live ball?

Here let me do it for you....

For the puposes of administering NFHS rule 10-1-6, a player is participating:
1) during all live-ball, clock running situations.
2) during all live-ball, clock stopped situations.
3) during all dead-ball, clock running situations.

A player is not participating during dead-ball, clock stopped situations.

And so it is written, and so it shall be!

Now see if you can find any exceptions.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Sigh.....

You've discovered the last secret of the universe, Billy. The NFHS did not make up an all-inclusive list of ALL situations when when players are participating. Bad NFHS rulesmakers! Bad, bad NFHS rulesmakers! Hey, how about you coming up with one? That'll give you something to do. Don't forget to post it here when you're done.

Untl then, sayonara.....

Can we get him to post it on the mythbusters forum?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

For the purposes of administering NFHS rule 10-1-6, a player is participating:
1) during all live-ball, clock running situations.
2) during all live-ball, clock stopped situations.
3) during all dead-ball, clock running situations.
A player is not participating during dead-ball, clock stopped situations.

Sounds logical.

Six team members on the court after granting timeouts, and during free throws when the ball is not at the disposal for the free thrower: They aren't really "participating", therefore, no technical fouls charged.