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Old Fri Jan 02, 2004, 09:58pm
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I know how to enforce and assess penalties in this situation, I am just not sure what to call it. The varsity assigner in my association quizzed me on this when it happened, but would not give me the answer on the spot. I went home to take a look at the rules book and the case book, but I'm still not sure...
A1 is guarding B1 in the frontcourt. A1 commits a 'push' on B1 by displacing/dislodging him as he attempts to advance the dribble. Tweet! Center official comes up with the foul, which is team A's 7th foul. Just a moment later, A1 shoves B1 into some nearby tables. Tweet #2! Technical foul on A1 for intentional contact when the ball is dead. I know that we should clear the lane, shoot the one and one from the personal foul and then administer two technical free throws for team B, followed by a division line throw in. However, what is this situation a description of- a false multiple foul, or something else? When my assigner asked me, I said false multiple foul because both fouls were on one team and the second happened before the ball had become live following the first foul. However, this doesn't completely mesh with the NFHS defintions, etc. Can anybody help me here?
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Old Fri Jan 02, 2004, 10:19pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by sleebo
However, what is this situation a description of- a false multiple foul, or something else? When my assigner asked me, I said false multiple foul because both fouls were on one team and the second happened before the ball had become live following the first foul. However, this doesn't completely mesh with the NFHS defintions, etc.
Sure it does.

Foul on A1.

Before the clock starts again, there's another foul on A1.

The ball becoming live is not the issue. When the clock re-starts is the issue.

It's a false multiple foul.
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Old Sat Jan 03, 2004, 05:57pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by sleebo
I know how to enforce and assess penalties in this situation, I am just not sure what to call it. The varsity assigner in my association quizzed me on this when it happened, but would not give me the answer on the spot. I went home to take a look at the rules book and the case book, but I'm still not sure...
A1 is guarding B1 in the frontcourt. A1 commits a 'push' on B1 by displacing/dislodging him as he attempts to advance the dribble. Tweet! Center official comes up with the foul, which is team A's 7th foul. Just a moment later, A1 shoves B1 into some nearby tables. Tweet #2! Technical foul on A1 for intentional contact when the ball is dead. I know that we should clear the lane, shoot the one and one from the personal foul and then administer two technical free throws for team B, followed by a division line throw in. However, what is this situation a description of- a false multiple foul, or something else? When my assigner asked me, I said false multiple foul because both fouls were on one team and the second happened before the ball had become live following the first foul. However, this doesn't completely mesh with the NFHS defintions, etc. Can anybody help me here?
Is that an intentional foul or did you call it a flagrant one?
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Old Sat Jan 03, 2004, 07:06pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
Quote:
Originally posted by sleebo
However, what is this situation a description of- a false multiple foul, or something else? When my assigner asked me, I said false multiple foul because both fouls were on one team and the second happened before the ball had become live following the first foul. However, this doesn't completely mesh with the NFHS defintions, etc.
Sure it does.

Foul on A1.

Before the clock starts again, there's another foul on A1.

The ball becoming live is not the issue. When the clock re-starts is the issue.

It's a false multiple foul.
Tony: Is it a false multiple because it was the same player (A-1) that committed both fouls on the same opponent (B-1), or does that matter? Just moved into an apt. and can't find my books -- or just about anything else for that matter.
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Old Sat Jan 03, 2004, 09:20pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by dblref
[/B]
Tony: Is it a false multiple because it was the same player (A-1) that committed both fouls on the same opponent (B-1), or does that matter?
[/B][/QUOTE]A false multiple foul is 2 or more fouls by the same team. A multiple foul is 2 or more teammates.
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Old Sun Jan 04, 2004, 01:29am
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Quote:
Originally posted by dblref
Tony: Is it a false multiple because it was the same player (A-1) that committed both fouls on the same opponent (B-1), or does that matter? Just moved into an apt. and can't find my books -- or just about anything else for that matter.
No, it's a false multiple foul because the second foul occurred before the clock had properly started.
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Old Sun Jan 04, 2004, 11:54am
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When's the last time anyone called

Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
Quote:
Originally posted by dblref
Tony: Is it a false multiple because it was the same player (A-1) that committed both fouls on the same opponent (B-1), or does that matter? Just moved into an apt. and can't find my books -- or just about anything else for that matter.
No, it's a false multiple foul because the second foul occurred before the clock had properly started.
or saw anyone call, a multiple foul? Be the first on your block to be bludgeoned to death. It's like that well known example, disgruntled. No one ever gets gruntled, right?
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Old Mon Jan 05, 2004, 01:58pm
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I would assume that the official in this case felt the second foul was flagrant because he issued the technical for it. The book says that a multiple foul is a foul by two or more teammates on the same opponent. As for a false multiple foul, it says something to the effect of one or more fouls that follow a previous foul and before the clock starts following that foul PLUS it is a situation that involves at least one aspect of a multiple foul. So...that leaves us with the original question because the two fouls were by the same player. I totally see how it could be a false multiple foul, but it doesn't have the key part of a multiple foul-a foul by two or more teammates...
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Old Mon Jan 05, 2004, 03:07pm
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Re: When's the last time anyone called

Quote:
Originally posted by JeffTheRef
...or saw anyone call, a multiple foul? Be the first on your block to be bludgeoned to death. It's like that well known example, disgruntled. No one ever gets gruntled, right?
People call these every once in while, they just don't call it "multiple foul". It's called "White! 32, block, two shots. TWEET!!! White, 44, Technical foul, flagrant, you're outta here!"

[Edited by rainmaker on Jan 5th, 2004 at 02:44 PM]
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Old Mon Jan 05, 2004, 03:29pm
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This isn't a multiple foul.

Quote:
Originally posted by sleebo
So...that leaves us with the original question because the two fouls were by the same player. I totally see how it could be a false multiple foul, but it doesn't have the key part of a multiple foul-a foul by two or more teammates...
It isn't that it "could be a false multiple foul." It IS a false multiple foul.

Don't confuse a mulitple foul with this play because it's a completely different issue.

"A false multiple foul is a situation in which there are two or more fouls by the same team..."

We have a personal foul on A1 followed by a technical foul on A1. We have satisfied the first part of the defintion.

"... and the last foul is committed before the clock is started following the first,..."

The personal foul occurs during a live ball while the claock is running. The second foul occurs during the dead ball period before the clock restarts. We have satisfied the second part of the defintion.

"...and at least one of the attributes of a multiple foul is absent."

In a multiple foul, a player is fouled simultaneously by TWO or more teammates from the same team. Since these fouls are not simultaneous nor do they involve TWO different players from the same team, this is not a multiple foul. Since we have two attributes of a multiple foul missing, we have now satisfied the last part of the defintion.

This is a false multiple foul. It's more a sequence of events than it is a call.
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Old Tue Jan 06, 2004, 02:21am
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Re: Re: When's the last time anyone called

Quote:
Originally posted by rainmaker
Quote:
Originally posted by JeffTheRef
...or saw anyone call, a multiple foul? Be the first on your block to be bludgeoned to death. It's like that well known example, disgruntled. No one ever gets gruntled, right?
People call these every once in while, they just don't call it "multiple foul". It's called "White! 32, block, two shots. TWEET!!! White, 44, Technical foul, flagrant, you're outta here!"

[Edited by rainmaker on Jan 5th, 2004 at 02:44 PM]
Meaning calling fouls on two players for fouling the same opponent at the same time? That is rare. Forget the flagrant. Just think sandwich. As a rule, you end up picking one, right?
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