Is there such an animal as a False Multiple Technical?

[CK]

Scenerio

A has 6 players on the floor, as the official is getting ready to call the T, A tries to sub a player for a player. (Not to remove the 6th player, but to sub without checking in or being beckoned onto the court by the official)(By the way my official would not and did not beckon the player onto the court, already knowing of the T for too many players on the floor). By DEFINITION would this be called a false multiple Technical foul. The out come is the same, as far as the penalty. By definiton, can this be defined as a False Multiple Technical?

Thank You

CK

[refiator]

I'm a little confused. If there were 6 players on the floor, but an unwarranted sub were entering the game, was there a dead ball (otherwise, why was sub entering?)
If the ball was dead, no "T" for the 6th man, and tell the sub to go back to the table. If the ball was live, I may ignore the sub and explain as a late whistle for the 6 players on the floor. In any event, I'd like to see the replay.

[Adam]

I'm confused, was the ball live or dead when he was about to call the T?
If it was live, blow the whistle for the 6 players, ignore the rest as the ball is dead. IOW, I agree with refiator on this one.
If it was dead, you've only got a T for the sub entering w/o being beckoned.

Either way, 1 T.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

The question should be:

Can all of the fouls in a false multiple foul be technical fouls? The answer is yes.


Example: A1 tells the official where to stick his whistle. The officials informs A1's coach, as to why A1 received a Flagrant TF, and A1's coach also tells the official what he can do with his whistle, thereby receiving a Flagrant TF himself.

MTD, Sr.

[BillyMac]

If a team has more than five team members participating simultaneously, then a team technical foul is charged. This infraction is penalized if it is discovered by the officials while being violated, in other words, while more than five team members are currently participating as players in the game.

Does it matter if the ball is dead, or live? If there are six players, does it matter whether whether, or not, the ball is dead, live, clock running, clock not running, or if there is, or isn't, a timeout (not an intermission)?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

If a team has more than five team members participating simultaneously, then a team technical foul is charged. This infraction is penalized if it is discovered by the officials while being violated, in other words, while more than five team members are currently participating as players in the game.

Does it matter if the ball is dead, or live? If there are six players, does it matter whether whether, or not, the ball is dead, live, clock running, clock not running, or if there is, or isn't, a timeout (not an intermission)?

You answered your own question in your first paragraph. Didn't you understand yourself?

[CK]

Sorry for the confusion in the original post

Thank you for the responses.

MTD, you answered the question as to, is there such an animal as a False Multiple Technical.

Thank You.

I will reword this

The question I have is two fold:

1: If the offical discovers during a LIVE ball, 6 players on the floor and blows the whistle to call the T (now a dead ball), at approximately the same time( or within seconds afterwards) the coach realizes they have 6 players on the floor and tries to pull that player off the floor. However the coach had a sub ready (on the bench) and the sub entered the floor without checking in or being beckoned. (A6 is replaced by A7) Still 6 on the floor.

Would this be a False Multiple Technical foul?

2: The official discovers 6 on the floor participating and BEFORE they blow the ball dead A7 subs for A6 without reporting or being beckoned, would this be a multiple Technical foul?

Sorry for the confusion and thank you again in advance

CK

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by CK

Sorry for the confusion in the original post

Thank you for the responses.

MTD, you answered the question as to, is there such an animal as a False Multiple Technical.

Thank You.

I will reword this

The question I have is two fold:

1: If the offical discovers during a LIVE ball, 6 players on the floor and blows the whistle to call the T (now a dead ball), at approximately the same time( or within seconds afterwards) the coach realizes they have 6 players on the floor and tries to pull that player off the floor. However the coach had a sub ready (on the bench) and the sub entered the floor without checking in or being beckoned. (A6 is replaced by A7) Still 6 on the floor.

Would this be a False Multiple Technical foul?

2: The official discovers 6 on the floor participating and BEFORE they blow the ball dead A7 subs for A6 without reporting or being beckoned, would this be a multiple Technical foul?

Sorry for the confusion and thank you again in advance

CK

Both plays would be a team technical followed by a player technical. Four free throws for the offended team, ball out of bounds at the division line.

[BillyMac]

This "more than five team members participating" is still bugging me.

I know this is poor mechanics, but bear with me and stick to the rules, especially those of you that believe that a technical foul for six players can't be given during a clock stopped, dead ball, situation.

Team A head coach yells to nearest official that there are six Team B players participating. Official sounds whistle to stop the action to count the players. There are six Team B team members on the court during this dead ball, clock stopped, situation. What's the call?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I know this is poor mechanics, but bear with me and stick to the rules, especially those of you that believe that a technical foul for six players can't be given during a clock stopped, dead ball, situation.

Those who believe that include every single official in the world except you, Old School.

[Adam]

Billy, I think it's safe to say that any official who screws this up and blows his whistle to count is likely to call the TF when he gets to 6.

Neither would be correct.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Those who believe that include every single official in the world except you.

It would make this "more than five team members participating" rule a lot easier to understand if it were true that a technical foul can't be charged if the ball is dead, and the clock is stopped. I would like it to be the NFHS interpretation. I'm almost convinced that it's the correct interpretation. I know that I'm debating with one of the great rules debaters on the Forum, and I'm more than likely going to come out on the wrong end of the debate. But, just answer my question:

Team A head coach yells to nearest official that there are six Team B players participating. Official sounds whistle to stop the action to count the players. There are six Team B team members on the court during this dead ball, clock stopped, situation. What's the call?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Team A head coach yells to nearest official that there are six Team B players participating. Official sounds whistle to stop the action to count the players. There are six Team B team members on the court during this dead ball, clock stopped, situation. What's the call?

I've been thinking about this one some more. (I think about things. It's what I do)

dis·cov·er (d-skvr) tr.v. dis·cov·ered, dis·cov·er·ing, dis·cov·ers

1. To notice or learn,

What defines discovery in this case? The officials learned about six on the floor from the coach, then went on to verify the information after a spontaneous (poorly timed) whistle. Ideally, one should make his own count first, but, in this case, I don't think this mistake kills the possibility of the T. JMO

I anticipate hearty disagreement on this opinion.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I anticipate hearty disagreement on this opinion.

Wrong. Instead, you will get extreme apathy, as in no one gives a sh!t except you and Billy.

Just call the damn game. It's what we should do.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Not when players are standing around, or moving to the next throw-in spot, etc.

I was pretty satisfied after this post.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Good point. Advantage. Disadvantage.

I've got some closure. Feels real good.

Originally Posted by just another ref

I've been thinking about this one some more. I think about things. It's what I do. The officials learned about six on the floor from the coach, then went on to verify the information.

Damn you just another ref. Now you've got me thinking again.