Tim Higgins

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by just another ref

But , if I recall correctly, a couple of years back when there was a bump in the backcourt in the last second of a tournament game (Georgetown vs. Somebody, maybe?) which caused a player to step out of bounds. The foul was called, the subsequent free throws were the winning margin, and Bilas said the whole thing should have been ignored.

Yes, the fanboys were blasting that call. It was G-Town/Villanova regular season game.

[jbduke]

Originally Posted by just another ref

But , if I recall correctly, a couple of years back when there was a bump in the backcourt in the last second of a tournament game (Georgetown vs. Somebody, maybe?) which caused a player to step out of bounds. The foul was called, the subsequent free throws were the winning margin, and Bilas said the whole thing should have been ignored.

Not really. The game you're thinking of was Georgetown-Villanova two seasons ago. Bilas never even acknowledged the possibility that the foul had been called because the ball-handler was bumped out of bounds. Replays were ultimately inconclusive, but they did show Bob Donato in perfect position to referee the play. I'll go to my grave convinced that he called the foul because he saw the Georgetown player step out of bounds. Perfectly officiated play.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by LeeBallanfant

[/COLOR]

Any one mention that the two coaches did not coach until the end of the game either.

And I just heard all of Rice's comments in the post game press conference. He was a class act and went way above and beyond to take the blame off the officials, praised them, and said "we have the best officials in America."

Makes the comment above even more absurd.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo

Exactly ... There was NO TRAVEL. Can't somebody tell Digger Phelps and the gang this!

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You cannot have a travel when the players are out of bounds. And I did see it more than once.



The question is when did he actually have the ball? He knocked the ball down to the floor when he first had the ball.

....

And he said that 3 officials missed it. Three officials are not looking at this play. Maybe two of them were, but more likely 1 in this specific play.

Peace

It should have been either a travel, if inbounds, or an OOB violation.

The "travel" was obvious...after the dribble, the ball was caught, the player then stepped with the right, the left and then the right again....then thew the ball.

It wasn't actually traveling however since the left foot step was OOB....as was the last right foot step. But since the OOB violation wasn't called, the ball was still live and the traveling was still possible.

Either way, all 3 officials are at fault. The L and the T for the line coverage and the C for the travel....the C has the mid-court area from sideline to sideline in such situations and should have had the travel even if he couldn't (and shouldn't) know that the player was OOB.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

It should have been either a travel, if inbounds, or an OOB violation.

The "travel" was obvious...after the dribble, the ball was caught, the player then stepped with the right, the left and then the right again....then thew the ball.

It wasn't actually traveling however since the left foot step was OOB....as was the last right foot step. But since the OOB violation wasn't called, the ball was still live and the traveling was still possible.

Actually he bounced the ball twice. The first time you could say he batted the ball away from ball handler and the second one was an actual dribble. Then he gathered the ball (this is judgment of course) and put his foot down on the division line. The second foot landed out of bounds. You are right that this could have been a travel of the out of bounds was not called, but that assumes that they knew the clock was still running in their minds.

Peace

[jbduke]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Actually he bounced the ball twice. The first time you could say he batted the ball away from ball handler and the second one was an actual dribble. Then he gathered the ball (this is judgment of course) and put his foot down on the division line. The second foot landed out of bounds. You are right that this could have been a travel of the out of bounds was not called, but that assumes that they knew the clock was still running in their minds.
Peace

I don't follow. If you think it's a travel, you blow the whistle. Period. If after doing so, you think that the final horn clearly beat your whistle, fine: ballgame. But blowing the whistle is the only chance you have there to completely eliminate the possibility of a dreadful mistake.

As the C, Walton would have been completely justified in banging a travel there. But it appears that almost immediately after the St. John's player controlled the ball, Walton looked away for some reason. I don't think he saw the whole play, so I'd be shocked if he thought that a travel was even a remote possibility there.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by jbduke

I don't follow. If you think it's a travel, you blow the whistle. Period. If after doing so, you think that the final horn clearly beat your whistle, fine: ballgame. But blowing the whistle is the only chance you have there to completely eliminate the possibility of a dreadful mistake.

So you call traveling when the clock has run out? Really??? And since you quoted what I said and highlighted, you must did not read it. You do not call anything if you are under the impression the game is over. They obviously thought the game was over or they would have looked at the monitor to see how much time to put on the clock. They did not do that, so they must have figured the game was over.

Originally Posted by jbduke

As the C, Walton would have been completely justified in banging a travel there. But it appears that almost immediately after the St. John's player controlled the ball, Walton looked away for some reason. I don't think he saw the whole play, so I'd be shocked if he thought that a travel was even a remote possibility there.

The person that would have called this was the Lead and that was Jim Burr. He has the ball, the feet and the line all in sight, much better than anyone across the court. Sorry, I am not making that call for an assumption. And across the court that is probably an assumption as you need to judge control. Burr had a much better look if he was looking there. Not sure how Higgins (the Trail) would see he is looking at the back of the player at best.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

So you call traveling when the clock has run out?

By what indication was time expired? The horn? A backboard light? A partner's whistle? Until one of those happens, they should officiate the play.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The person that would have called this was the Lead and that was Jim Burr. ...
Not sure how Higgins (the Trail) would see he is looking at the back of the player at best.

Peace

After the turnover, Burr was the Trail, Higgins (white hair) was the lead. Burr was looking at the back with Higgins having the best line view.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Actually he bounced the ball twice. The first time you could say he batted the ball away from ball handler and the second one was an actual dribble. Then he gathered the ball (this is judgment of course) and put his foot down on the division line. The second foot landed out of bounds. You are right that this could have been a travel of the out of bounds was not called, but that assumes that they knew the clock was still running in their minds.

Peace

I know he bounced it twice...once was a bat away from the other players, the other was a dribble. Everything I mentioned was after he picked it up which was after both bounces.

There was no reason to think the clock wasn't running unless someone sounded a fake horn...and I haven't seen any indication of that.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

By what indication was time expired? The horn? A backboard light? A partner's whistle? Until one of those happens, they should officiate the play.

And what part did you read where I said they should not still be officiating? But I am sure you have been in gyms you have not heard any of those things. I know I could not tell many of these things in my little corner of the world just this week. I think they assumed that the game was over and stopped paying attention. They were obviously wrong but the only real explanation for what took place. How do you not see a kid step out of bounds and throw the ball in the air and still have time on the clock. Heck, Steve Lavin was acting like the game was over.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

After the turnover, Burr was the Trail, Higgens (white hair) was the lead. Burr was looking at the back with Higgins having the best line view.

You know they look alike to me.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I know he bounced it twice...once was a bat away from the other players, the other was a dribble. Everything I mentioned was after he picked it up which was after both bounces.

There was no reason to think the clock wasn't running unless someone sounded a fake horn...and I haven't seen any indication of that.

You really need to go back and look at the video. The St. John's player clearly did not grab the ball until he was touching the division line. The next step was out of bounds. That is two steps and if the trail thinks the game is over he is not going to make that call or guess if he has control. Just look at the video I embedded in this thread, that is clear. And the officials immediately leave the court as they clearly think the game is over. They do not even waste time as Burr is the first one in the tunnel and walks as if nothing is an issue.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

So you call traveling when the clock has run out? Really???

So you don't make a call because you think the clock might have run out? Really? Better to make this call after the buzzer than to miss/ignore it with more than a second left.

[jbduke]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Going back and seeing the final play, I can see why a travel wasn't called by the center. I'd be fine with the no call. Still don't know how the trail and lead miss the out of bounds call.

Could you elaborate on why you think a travel wasn't called by the C?

If the center saw the whole play (I don't think he did; I think he looked away for a moment after the SJU player gained control), why wouldn't he have a travel there? He has to assume that the player is in bounds, and he hasn't heard a horn or seen an LED light. If you move the sideline over another foot, it's an obvious travel.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

So you don't make a call because you think the clock might have run out? Really? Better to make this call after the buzzer than to miss/ignore it with more than a second left.

I do not know about you, but when the game is over, I do not blow the whistle and make an additional call. As a matter of fact when I think the game is over, I might indicate the game is over. Now based on previous posts you do not work three person it is not common for the C to make this call across the court even if time had been in play. The only person that would have likely made this call would have been the T or C and only if they had a clear view. I cannot recall ever making a call like this when the line is at play and I would call a travel completely across the court.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by jbduke

Could you elaborate on why you think a travel wasn't called by the C?

If the center saw the whole play (I don't think he did; I think he looked away for a moment after the SJU player gained control), why wouldn't he have a travel there? He has to assume that the player is in bounds, and he hasn't heard a horn or seen an LED light. If you move the sideline over another foot, it's an obvious travel.

Because the ball was on the other side of the court and there is a Lead or Trail that can clearly see the ball much better than the C. We cannot even agree here when the guy had possession and the view across the court is not as clear as it appears the ball handler grabbed the ball with his right arm away from the C.

Peace