Another false multiple question

[Scrapper1]

Someone asked me about this and I thought I'd bring it here for opinions.

One official calls a PC foul against A1. Another official calls a pushing foul against A2. The whistles are at the exact same time. (I asked the official point blank if they could have ruled that one came first. He said definitely not.) Team B is in the automatic bonus (2 free throws).

Obviously, you assess both fouls. But how do you resume play after the free throws? Do you shoot the two free throws with the lane cleared and then also award the ball to Team B as a result of the PC foul? Or do you play off the make or miss?

I can't find a real justification for either solution.

[Jurassic Referee]

Not definitively covered. Your choice which foul to administer first.

[Adam]

I'd like to see an addition to make this enforcement the same as for multiple fouls.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Someone asked me about this and I thought I'd bring it here for opinions.

One official calls a PC foul against A1. Another official calls a pushing foul against A2. The whistles are at the exact same time. (I asked the official point blank if they could have ruled that one came first. He said definitely not.) Team B is in the automatic bonus (2 free throws).

Obviously, you assess both fouls. But how do you resume play after the free throws? Do you shoot the two free throws with the lane cleared and then also award the ball to Team B as a result of the PC foul? Or do you play off the make or miss?

I can't find a real justification for either solution.

Neither. If A1's foul was a PC foul, then A2's foul is (with one exception... airborne shooter) a TC foul. No shots, B"s ball.

[bob jenkins]

Aren't these both TC fouls? So, the only decision is where to inbound the ball.

The general question though (what to do when there are two fouls against the same team) hasn't been addressed by the governing bodies.

In the past, sometimes the discussions we've had here turn into rulings the following year. Maybe this one will follow suit.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Neither. If A1's foul was a PC foul, then A2's foul is (with one exception... airborne shooter) a TC foul. No shots, B"s ball.

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Aren't these both TC fouls?

Yes, you're right. I obviously brain cramped. If both fouls are on the offense, then there's no shots because they're both team control. If they're both on the defense, then there are 4 free throws. If there's one against each team, then there's no free throws because they're simultaneous.

[Adam]

You could conceivably have PC foul on an airborne shooter (A1) occur at the same time as a rebounding foul (no TC due to released shot) against A2.

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

You could conceivably have PC foul on an airborne shooter (A1) occur at the same time as a rebounding foul (no TC due to released shot) against A2.

My thinking as well....

[ThatOneRef]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Someone asked me about this and I thought I'd bring it here for opinions.

One official calls a PC foul against A1. Another official calls a pushing foul against A2. The whistles are at the exact same time. (I asked the official point blank if they could have ruled that one came first. He said definitely not.) Team B is in the automatic bonus (2 free throws).

Obviously, you assess both fouls. But how do you resume play after the free throws? Do you shoot the two free throws with the lane cleared and then also award the ball to Team B as a result of the PC foul? Or do you play off the make or miss?

I can't find a real justification for either solution.

With the order your saying.. Id administer the PC foul and the push. B's ball wherever the PC foul was. If A's coach asks anything about 2 fouls and the administration of them tell him your letting them off easy cause the push was after the initial whistle.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by ThatOneRef

With the order your saying.. Id administer the PC foul and the push. B's ball wherever the PC foul was. If A's coach asks anything about 2 fouls and the administration of them tell him your letting them off easy cause the push was after the initial whistle.

Are you aware that by rule:
1) the ball is dead immediately on a PC foul?
2) a contact foul after the ball is dead can only be assessed if the contact is intentional or flagrant in nature?
3) If you do call an intentional or flagrant dead-ball contact foul, then that foul has to be an intentional or flagrant technical foul by rule?
4) If you do call a PC foul followed by a technical foul, you have no choice by rule but to penalize both fouls in the order that they occurred?
5) the penalty for the dead-ball technical foul is 2 FT's plus the ball?

Do you really think it's good advice to let any coach know that you don't know the rules? What do you think that B's coach is going to say when he hears your explanation? Do you really think that he's not going to ask you where his 2 FT's for the "T" went?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by ThatOneRef

With the order your saying.. Id administer the PC foul and the push. B's ball wherever the PC foul was. If A's coach asks anything about 2 fouls and the administration of them tell him your letting them off easy cause the push was after the initial whistle.

So, let me get this straight.
1. You're going to lie to the coach.
2. You're going to admit rules ignorance to the coach.

Have fun working middle school and rec games with Padgett.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

So, let me get this straight.
1. You're going to lie to the coach.
2. You're going to admit rules ignorance to the coach.

Have fun working middle school and rec games with Padgett.

Most coaches know that I just make up the rules as I go along, .

MTD, Sr.

P.S. No comments from the peanut gallery.

[refiator]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

So, let me get this straight.
1. You're going to lie to the coach.
2. You're going to admit rules ignorance to the coach.

Have fun working middle school and rec games with Padgett.

That's funny.