Verbal Abuse - how much is too much?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BballRookie

I made a delayed call and one team went ballistic. I know I screwed up the call.

While others have given you advice on the unsporting aspect of your situation, I have decided to offer something about the delayed call.

When you say that you screwed up the call, do you mean that you blew the call, or that you had the right call, and for some reason, delayed the whistle?

For most plays, a delayed call is better than a wrong call. Sometimes it may take you a few fractions of a second to fire up those neurons, and get those pesky neurotransmitter chemicals to cross the synapses. By the time your brain registers that a foul, or a violation, has occurred, some time may have passed, maybe up to a full second, or so, until you actually sound your whistle. I've actually spit my whistle out on a few occasions, and have had to put it back in my mouth to blow it again. If someone complains about a late whistle, just tell them that it was delayed, but it was the right call.

On the other hand, there is some undefined statute of limitations on how long you can delay your whistle. You don't want to be calling a travel ten seconds after it happens. On those calls, you just say to yourself, "Damn, I think I missed that, I'm going to get it next time", and move on. If someone questions the missed call, just say, "I may have missed it", which is the truth, and move on.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled program, "How Much Sh** Do You Take Before Giving Someone The Old Heave-Ho?", now in progress.

[dsqrddgd909]

Everyone has a different level. I try to ignore the usual carping unless it's one of the three P's (personal, public, profane.) Then it's either a warning or a T.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909

Everyone has a different level. I try to ignore the usual carping unless it's one of the three P's (personal, public, profane.) Then it's either a warning or a T.

You've got one of the Ps wrong. Instead of "public," it's "persistent." You really warn/penalize any "public" comment?

[BballRookie]

Ok, you guys will be shaking your heads, but to answer the question on the call that was screwed up here is what happened: I'm Trail, and end of the game team A is down by 10 points but has been fighting back all half. They still think they can win this game. Team A's point guard is all over team B's point guard. Team B's point guard tries to create space but the amount of space created wasn't much. Here is where it got bad: on that play I wasn't counting 5 seconds.. so when the ball went out of bounds, team A screamed for a 5 second call that should have been made, which was probably warranted. I confered with my partner at the baseline and explained the situation. He said let's call the 5 second and of course team B went crazy (thus the ref became unglued, said things he would have t'd someone up for). Team B said it wasn't a reviewable call, which could be true as well, but we had discussed it, made that call, and had to stick to our guns.

Both teams are full of former players, so even the best calls all night were challenged. This was a slightly more competitive mens league with former college players, coaches and refs on the court going at each other.

Another rookie question: How can I get a copy of the High School bball rules? I live in Idaho and can't find it online.

I just moved here from CA and would like to join the association if my job permits. So for now I ref city league and kids.

Thanks for the imput guys, I appreciate it.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BballRookie

Ok, you guys will be shaking your heads, but to answer the question on the call that was screwed up here is what happened: I'm Trail, and end of the game team A is down by 10 points but has been fighting back all half. They still think they can win this game. Team A's point guard is all over team B's point guard. Team B's point guard tries to create space but the amount of space created wasn't much. Here is where it got bad: on that play I wasn't counting 5 seconds.. so when the ball went out of bounds, team A screamed for a 5 second call that should have been made, which was probably warranted. I confered with my partner at the baseline and explained the situation. He said let's call the 5 second and of course team B went crazy (thus the ref became unglued, said things he would have t'd someone up for). Team B said it wasn't a reviewable call, which could be true as well, but we had discussed it, made that call, and had to stick to our guns.

Both teams are full of former players, so even the best calls all night were challenged. This was a slightly more competitive mens league with former college players, coaches and refs on the court going at each other.

Another rookie question: How can I get a copy of the High School bball rules? I live in Idaho and can't find it online.

I just moved here from CA and would like to join the association if my job permits. So for now I ref city league and kids.

Thanks for the imput guys, I appreciate it.

1) It's not really a changeable call.

2) You can order from NFHS, or join and review it on-line.

[dsqrddgd909]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

You've got one of the Ps wrong. Instead of "public," it's "persistent." You really warn/penalize any "public" comment?

Snaq, yes I agree. Persistent instead of Public. Must have had a cerebral low temp event.

[stir22]

great, great thread- invaluable to us newer guys. i'm in my third year, and have come to know where my "line" is. my first year i was too scared to call a T, and vividly remember a couple of situations where the coach was so out of line that anybody would have called a t. in retrospect, i wish i would have t'd them up, and, i also wish that after the game my partners had given me some insight...in addition to what i asked them.

i will referee anytime for any level, because i want to improve, but i won't do city league games. i did a few, and found that they were so crazy it was actually making me regress as an official. i would much rather do 5th graders. actually, i think the 5th graders are more mature than the ex-jocks who are playing to re-attain their glory days.

[JFlores]

This is my fourth year and at times I wonder where my line is.

For example this past Friday I had a JV/So DH, coach for both squads are the same. So JV game goes smooth, no issues with said coach. However SO game, a couple minutes into the game I call a hand check and coach goes off for a bit giving me "You going to call that ticky tat foul, make sure you call it both ways", I say ok coach i hear ya, give him the nod and keep it moving.

Now I have a play where a young man goes for the loose ball, he slips and takes the opposing players feet out with his own feet, I saw nothing and didnt call a foul. The coach runs up crosses half court line to argue for a foul, I just gave him the stop sign and he walked away. In hindsight I shouldve T him up, he was quiet the rest of the game. Caught me by surprise but usually running up to me warrants a T.

I got him on Tuesday.

[Adam]

Running towards you, out of the box, complaining about a call?

T

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by Loudwhistle

It sounds like you may be just starting out officiating, if you are (or aren't), I would avoid adult city league games....

I agree with this. When I was a graduate student about 6-7 years ago I used to do Adult Rec all the time just for the cash. Now, I pretty much avoid it. I understand if this is all your schedule allows you to do but I enjoy scholastic, JUCO (though this can sometimes be glorified Adult rec), and even AAU SO MUCH more than Adult leagues. You can't win no matter what kind of game you call and guys tend to take the frustration of being past their athletic primes out on the officials.

I did however, do 5 Adult league games this past weekend. Saturday morning I did three games for a friend of mind who was paying cash on the spot. It's a church league played in the actual church on a nice court. The guy who runs the league seems to be a really cool guy and while there was subtle questioning of calls there was no profanity, no problems, and everyone seemed respectful of the fact that we were in a church. I will likely do this league several times over the next two months.

Last night, I did 2 games for a county league as a favor to the Rec Commissioner for my Scholastic board. I had 5 Ts though two were double technicals.

First Double T (1st game)- After a bunch of jostling in the post prior to an inbound play my partner warns both players to knock it off. I hear them mumbling stuff to each then the next time we come down to the same end of the court the both kind of load up and run into each other. Double T.

Second Double T (2nd game)- A player on the black team that shot absolutely lights out (put up 90 points with 20 minute running clock halves and up 30 at this point) gets fouled hard (not THAT hard but hard enough) going up for a layup with about 3 minutes left. While going to the line he says "That's some BS." Not really directed at anyone. While at the line he says to the opposing player on gold "I gotta go to work tomorrow." The guys says something to the effect of "Shut up and shoot your free throws." Double T.

Last Technical- Same game as the second double T. My partner calls a blocking foul on the gold 44. As I'm adminstering the free throws gold 44 mumbles something about it being a soft call and didnt know we were playing "girls basketball." I look at him but say nothing because "I gotta go to work tomorrow too" and I'm trying to get outta here. He then makes a second reference to girls basketball and how we must have called a girls game last nite. T- Gold 44.

While my partner administers the T, a member of the gold team and former D-1 player who was cool most of the night says, "Why is that a Tech, he wasnt showing you up. I mean I heard him but it's not like the whole gym heard it." My response was "the whole gym doesnt have to hear it. I'm hear to officiate basketball. I don't have to listen to that stuff all night and I'm NOT going to listen to that all night." Fair enough he says.

The games were both really well played but I seriously doubt I will be doing this league again. Not worth the hassle.

These were all easy calls for me to make though I don't think they would have been quite so easy when I was younger. The problem with adult rec is you really need experienced officials to TCB but it's not worth the hassle for most experienced officials to work them.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

After a bunch of jostling in the post prior to an inbound play my partner warns both players to knock it off. I hear them mumbling stuff to each then the next time we come down to the same end of the court they both kind of load up and run into each other. Double T.

Live ball contact? Technical foul? What?

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Live ball contact? Technical foul? What?

Live ball.

The ball was coming up the court and I was watching them the whole time as I knew they one or both was about to do something stupid.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

Live ball.

Shouldn't those have been double personals then?

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Shouldn't those have been double personals then?

I thought this was where this was going.

At first, I signaled for a double foul. But went double T so that each would know that any more BS and they would get tossed.

I should know this, but by rule am I not allowed to issue Ts here? Bout to go to do a game but I'll check back. TIA.

[APG]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

I thought this was where this was going.

At first, I signaled for a double foul. But went double T so that each would know that any more BS and they would get tossed.

I should know this, but by rule am I not allowed to issue Ts here? Bout to go to do a game but I'll check back. TIA.

Live ball contact...should of been a double personal foul.