Verbal Abuse - how much is too much?

[Loudwhistle]

Originally Posted by BballRookie

New guy here: I was officiating in city league a while ago and during a very heated game I made a delayed call and one team went ballastic. One of the players on the heated team was an official, and he lost his cool. They had no subs, so fatigue was at play, and really he was furious because they lost a giant lead and nearly the game(they won in the end).

I know I screwed up the call so I let it go and ignored him. What consitutes as verbal abuse? Swearing? A player saying "you suck ref!"? Making chippy remarks? Insulting the level you are officiating at?

Any comments, direction, or crazy stories are appeciated.

It sounds like you may be just starting out officiating, if you are (or aren't), I would avoid adult city league games. I only do two adult games a year and that is the christmas alumni games. Adult leagues have more chippy, arrogant players and some of the coaches are more than a complete a$$!! I don't tolerate, "you suck", or other similar verbal abuse, "bad" profanity (whatever that is) is not put up with either at any level. A possible suggestion is officiate 4-6 grade level games to start and work up from there. These games are a lot easier in a lot of ways and you'll see things you never thought possible during a basketball game! Good Luck, when a player or coach is starting to ruin my fun as an official I tend to focus on them and a "T" quickly follows!

[Adam]

1. If it's personal, don't tolerate it at that level. The more you take, the more they'll give.

2. If I know a guy is a ref, he gets a shorter rope due to a higher standard to which I hold fellow officials.

3. If he has taken the opportunity to tell me he's an official (as opposed to me just knowing for various reasons), the rope gets even shorter. If he so much as looks at me sidewise while talking to me, T.

4. I'm convinced that most rec leagues need more Ts handed out, not less.

5. As BktBallRef stated, it doesn't matter if I screwed a call or not; players and coaches don't get to address me like that.

6. Completely separate issue, but you said it was a late call and then that you had screwed the call. Was it a correct call, or was it late and wrong?

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

4. I'm convinced that most rec leagues need more Ts handed out, not less.

The majority of mine are handed out here......and unfortunately, I'm one of the only ones who hands em out. That's part of the problem. So many officials take it at that level and then when we come along to enforce the rules........oh well! WHACK!

[JRutledge]

If they get personal or question my integrity that usually needs to be addressed. Even if you do not give a T, these should be addressed in some way. Either a quiet little talk or sometimes a public one meaning everyone knows I am talking to that player or coach. What you decide to ultimately penalize or not penalize is up to your personal standards and experience. It is also good to know what the standard for that league or level is as well because some assignors/leagues might have a strict policy how to handle certain behaviors.

Peace

[RobbyinTN]

I refuse to do adult rec games and don't really like to do any kind of rec game. In the adult leagues, the players are a$$es many times and I refuse to take it so needless to say, it is an unpleasant game for all involved. In the younger rec leagues, while I enjoy working with the kids, I notice I am not as sharp at the next varsity game as I normal am if I did a rec game the night before. I think doing the rec league games actually hurts me as an official as often they want you to be more lenient on calls and I find that hard to do.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by RobbyinTN

I think doing the rec league games actually hurts me as an official as often they want you to be more lenient on calls and I find that hard to do.

+1 Alternating from one to the other is a challenge.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by RobbyinTN

I refuse to do adult rec games and don't really like to do any kind of rec game.

I friend of mine runs a men's league. I've never worked it, but he tells me how he took care of unwanted behavior: fines.

If you get T'd up, it's a $25 fine, payable immediately. You cannot go back into the game until it's paid. (It makes for some interesting scenes of players hitting up their teammates.) If you get a second T, you're done, and you cannot play the next game until $25 is paid.

The league has 17 teams, so they apparently abide by it.

[OnePutt]

Generally, is the comment 1) disrespectful or 2) unsportsmanlike? Sometimes I like to add a third: Is it something you wouldn't say to a cop who has pulled you over for a traffic violation? How 'bout "you suck, Gumshoe" as he walks up to ask you for license, proof of insurance, and registration?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by RobbyinTN

I think doing the rec league games actually hurts me as an official as often they want you to be more lenient on calls and I find that hard to do.

Why more lenient? Maybe they can play through more contact, but I see no reason to be "more lenient." Just call your game, and don't accept any grief.

You're right, though, if that doesn't work, don't do the games.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by Loudwhistle

It sounds like you may be just starting out officiating, if you are (or aren't), I would avoid adult city league games....

I agree with this. When I was a graduate student about 6-7 years ago I used to do Adult Rec all the time just for the cash. Now, I pretty much avoid it. I understand if this is all your schedule allows you to do but I enjoy scholastic, JUCO (though this can sometimes be glorified Adult rec), and even AAU SO MUCH more than Adult leagues. You can't win no matter what kind of game you call and guys tend to take the frustration of being past their athletic primes out on the officials.

I did however, do 5 Adult league games this past weekend. Saturday morning I did three games for a friend of mind who was paying cash on the spot. It's a church league played in the actual church on a nice court. The guy who runs the league seems to be a really cool guy and while there was subtle questioning of calls there was no profanity, no problems, and everyone seemed respectful of the fact that we were in a church. I will likely do this league several times over the next two months.

Last night, I did 2 games for a county league as a favor to the Rec Commissioner for my Scholastic board. I had 5 Ts though two were double technicals.

First Double T (1st game)- After a bunch of jostling in the post prior to an inbound play my partner warns both players to knock it off. I hear them mumbling stuff to each then the next time we come down to the same end of the court the both kind of load up and run into each other. Double T.

Second Double T (2nd game)- A player on the black team that shot absolutely lights out (put up 90 points with 20 minute running clock halves and up 30 at this point) gets fouled hard (not THAT hard but hard enough) going up for a layup with about 3 minutes left. While going to the line he says "That's some BS." Not really directed at anyone. While at the line he says to the opposing player on gold "I gotta go to work tomorrow." The guys says something to the effect of "Shut up and shoot your free throws." Double T.

Last Technical- Same game as the second double T. My partner calls a blocking foul on the gold 44. As I'm adminstering the free throws gold 44 mumbles something about it being a soft call and didnt know we were playing "girls basketball." I look at him but say nothing because "I gotta go to work tomorrow too" and I'm trying to get outta here. He then makes a second reference to girls basketball and how we must have called a girls game last nite. T- Gold 44.

While my partner administers the T, a member of the gold team and former D-1 player who was cool most of the night says, "Why is that a Tech, he wasnt showing you up. I mean I heard him but it's not like the whole gym heard it." My response was "the whole gym doesnt have to hear it. I'm hear to officiate basketball. I don't have to listen to that stuff all night and I'm NOT going to listen to that all night." Fair enough he says.

The games were both really well played but I seriously doubt I will be doing this league again. Not worth the hassle.

These were all easy calls for me to make though I don't think they would have been quite so easy when I was younger. The problem with adult rec is you really need experienced officials to TCB but it's not worth the hassle for most experienced officials to work them.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

After a bunch of jostling in the post prior to an inbound play my partner warns both players to knock it off. I hear them mumbling stuff to each then the next time we come down to the same end of the court they both kind of load up and run into each other. Double T.

Live ball contact? Technical foul? What?

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Live ball contact? Technical foul? What?

Live ball.

The ball was coming up the court and I was watching them the whole time as I knew they one or both was about to do something stupid.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

Live ball.

Shouldn't those have been double personals then?

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Shouldn't those have been double personals then?

I thought this was where this was going.

At first, I signaled for a double foul. But went double T so that each would know that any more BS and they would get tossed.

I should know this, but by rule am I not allowed to issue Ts here? Bout to go to do a game but I'll check back. TIA.

[APG]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

I thought this was where this was going.

At first, I signaled for a double foul. But went double T so that each would know that any more BS and they would get tossed.

I should know this, but by rule am I not allowed to issue Ts here? Bout to go to do a game but I'll check back. TIA.

Live ball contact...should of been a double personal foul.