Verbal Abuse - how much is too much?

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by Loudwhistle

It sounds like you may be just starting out officiating, if you are (or aren't), I would avoid adult city league games....

I agree with this. When I was a graduate student about 6-7 years ago I used to do Adult Rec all the time just for the cash. Now, I pretty much avoid it. I understand if this is all your schedule allows you to do but I enjoy scholastic, JUCO (though this can sometimes be glorified Adult rec), and even AAU SO MUCH more than Adult leagues. You can't win no matter what kind of game you call and guys tend to take the frustration of being past their athletic primes out on the officials.

I did however, do 5 Adult league games this past weekend. Saturday morning I did three games for a friend of mind who was paying cash on the spot. It's a church league played in the actual church on a nice court. The guy who runs the league seems to be a really cool guy and while there was subtle questioning of calls there was no profanity, no problems, and everyone seemed respectful of the fact that we were in a church. I will likely do this league several times over the next two months.

Last night, I did 2 games for a county league as a favor to the Rec Commissioner for my Scholastic board. I had 5 Ts though two were double technicals.

First Double T (1st game)- After a bunch of jostling in the post prior to an inbound play my partner warns both players to knock it off. I hear them mumbling stuff to each then the next time we come down to the same end of the court the both kind of load up and run into each other. Double T.

Second Double T (2nd game)- A player on the black team that shot absolutely lights out (put up 90 points with 20 minute running clock halves and up 30 at this point) gets fouled hard (not THAT hard but hard enough) going up for a layup with about 3 minutes left. While going to the line he says "That's some BS." Not really directed at anyone. While at the line he says to the opposing player on gold "I gotta go to work tomorrow." The guys says something to the effect of "Shut up and shoot your free throws." Double T.

Last Technical- Same game as the second double T. My partner calls a blocking foul on the gold 44. As I'm adminstering the free throws gold 44 mumbles something about it being a soft call and didnt know we were playing "girls basketball." I look at him but say nothing because "I gotta go to work tomorrow too" and I'm trying to get outta here. He then makes a second reference to girls basketball and how we must have called a girls game last nite. T- Gold 44.

While my partner administers the T, a member of the gold team and former D-1 player who was cool most of the night says, "Why is that a Tech, he wasnt showing you up. I mean I heard him but it's not like the whole gym heard it." My response was "the whole gym doesnt have to hear it. I'm hear to officiate basketball. I don't have to listen to that stuff all night and I'm NOT going to listen to that all night." Fair enough he says.

The games were both really well played but I seriously doubt I will be doing this league again. Not worth the hassle.

These were all easy calls for me to make though I don't think they would have been quite so easy when I was younger. The problem with adult rec is you really need experienced officials to TCB but it's not worth the hassle for most experienced officials to work them.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

After a bunch of jostling in the post prior to an inbound play my partner warns both players to knock it off. I hear them mumbling stuff to each then the next time we come down to the same end of the court they both kind of load up and run into each other. Double T.

Live ball contact? Technical foul? What?

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Live ball contact? Technical foul? What?

Live ball.

The ball was coming up the court and I was watching them the whole time as I knew they one or both was about to do something stupid.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

Live ball.

Shouldn't those have been double personals then?

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Shouldn't those have been double personals then?

I thought this was where this was going.

At first, I signaled for a double foul. But went double T so that each would know that any more BS and they would get tossed.

I should know this, but by rule am I not allowed to issue Ts here? Bout to go to do a game but I'll check back. TIA.

[APG]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

I thought this was where this was going.

At first, I signaled for a double foul. But went double T so that each would know that any more BS and they would get tossed.

I should know this, but by rule am I not allowed to issue Ts here? Bout to go to do a game but I'll check back. TIA.

Live ball contact...should of been a double personal foul.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Live ball contact...should of been a double personal foul.

Three choices: Double personal fouls, maybe intentional, maybe flagrant?

[ref3808]

Two examples come to mind this year where mine was crossed:

I called two offensive (PC) fouls on the same player in the first quarter of a JV B game last week. The lad will be a good player, but he has a terrible habit of pushing off the defender to create space as he brings the ball up. The more defensive pressure, the harder he pushes. After the second PC foul the coach stands up and pulls chestnuts 1,2,3 out of the coaching protest manual. ("How can you call that", "you have it in for the kid", and "other officials didn't call that a foul during the season") I might have let him rant if he hadn't started yelling from the bench, but finished somewhere around the center circle. As I started to call his well earned technical he yells "I suppose you're going to give me a technical now". Ah, yes coach I think you've earned it. (my partner called the same foul, same player a third time at the start of the second half)

This past weekend (B-5G) an AC, as a time out was granted to his team after the HC requested one, started using my personal favorite "you have to call them both ways ref" loudly enough for the entire gym to hear. After I glanced over at the bench, which usually stops the talking, he yells "that's just Bulls#t". Whistle, T administered. The HC was pretty pleased, losing the coachnig box because his AC couldn't keep his mouth shut.

[constable]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

I thought this was where this was going.

At first, I signaled for a double foul. But went double T so that each would know that any more BS and they would get tossed.

I should know this, but by rule am I not allowed to issue Ts here? Bout to go to do a game but I'll check back. TIA.

nope. You're not. live ball contact must be a personal- common or shooting, intentional or flagrant.