Correctible/Not Correctible Question

[Maineac]

Attending, not officiating, a GV game last night. A1 with ball is fouled (common foul) in the FC (non-shooting). Official scorer neglects to tell the reporting official (R in a 3-person crew in this case) that the foul committed on A1 was Team B's 7th foul of the half (it was, as it turns out). R, not knowing that A1 should be shooting the bonus, indicates the throw-in spot and U1 administers the throw-in. Ball comes in, A2 catches and shoots and is immediately fouled.

At this point, Coach A brings to the attention of the tableside trail official (just happened to be the R again, who had reported the previous foul) that she believes the foul which preceded the throw-in was in fact the 7th foul of the half and A1 should have been shooting 1 + 1. At this time, the other officials are setting up for the two free throws resulting from the foul on A2.

R listens to the coach, says "We'll take a look at it." He then allows the two free-throws to be administered. At the next dead ball following the free throws, R proceeds to the table where he confirms that A1 should have been shooting 1 + 1. He then tells the coach that he is sorry, the error is no longer correctible.

I think I have a pretty good handle on the correctible error rule, but my question in this instance comes down to the timing of when the R was made aware of the error. It is my understanding that when he actually went to the book(s) and compared notes, the error was no longer correctible. However, at the time he was made aware of the (potential) error, it was still within the correctible time frame.

So here's my question as a relative newbie: Could R make the correction due to the fact the potential error was brought to his attention during the time the error was still correctible? IMO, the reason it was no longer correctible was due to the fact he said "We'll take a look at it" and then allowed (inadvertently) the correctible time period to lapse. I'm not criticizing here, and this play had no bearing on the outcome of the game. I'm just wondering in case I find myself in a similar sitch down the road.

Thanks.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Maineac

So here's my question as a relative newbie: Could R make the correction due to the fact the potential error was brought to his attention during the time the error was still correctible?

I'll vote "no." The R should have looked when the coach asked, and the coach should have "insisted" on it. Once the R didn't, though, it's too late.

If it happens to you, check on the problem as soon as you think there might be one. It can't get better to wait.

[asdf]

Nope....

Lets say the officials get together three minutes after the coach informs the official (during the correctable timeframe) and realize they screwed up.

See where that is going ? The rule setting the timeframe in which the error can be corrected is clear. It prevents situations such as these.

The table messed up, then the official messed up when it was brought to his attention. As Bob said, if the subject is brought up by a coach, addresss it immediately. Correct it if you can, move on if you cannot.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Maineac

Attending, not officiating, a GV game last night. A1 with ball is fouled (common foul) in the FC (non-shooting). Official scorer neglects to tell the reporting official (R in a 3-person crew in this case) that the foul committed on A1 was Team B's 7th foul of the half (it was, as it turns out). R, not knowing that A1 should be shooting the bonus, indicates the throw-in spot and U1 administers the throw-in. Ball comes in, A2 catches and shoots and is immediately fouled.

At this point, Coach A brings to the attention of the tableside trail official (just happened to be the R again, who had reported the previous foul) that she believes the foul which preceded the throw-in was in fact the 7th foul of the half and A1 should have been shooting 1 + 1. At this time, the other officials are setting up for the two free throws resulting from the foul on A2.
...

Ahh, the classic situation of Coach A purposely waiting to point out the error so they could get 2 opportunities to score.

[tref]

Hmmmm sounds like coach shouldve followed CE procedures & got a t/o.

Was there 7 team fouls on the board? You'd think 1 of the 3 officials would check the clock following a whistle...
Personally, I like the crew to be aware at 6.

CE time frames & rules have always confused me, so I choose not to have them in my games (lol) but lets say it got fixed within the limit, would we shoot the 1 & 1 w/the lane cleared then administer the FTs for the shooting foul w/players lined up?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Ahh, the classic situation of Coach A purposely waiting to point out the error so they could get 2 opportunities to score.

Yep. I'm not justifying it, but it almost seems as if the R purposefully waited.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by tref

...CE time frames & rules have always confused me, so I choose not to have them in my games (lol) but lets say it got fixed within the limit, would we shoot the 1 & 1 w/the lane cleared then administer the FTs for the shooting foul w/players lined up?

Unfortunately, yes.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Yep. I'm not justifying it, but it almost seems as if the R purposefully waited.

Funny, I was thinking the same thing. Maybe he thought some fishy was going on.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Funny, I was thinking the same thing. Maybe he thought some fishy was going on.

Let's not blame the coach for this one. This one is squarely on the table (BOTH scorer's have a book) and the officials. The coach MAY have been trying to get away with something, but it COULD NOT happen without mistakes being made by the others.

[Maineac]

Originally Posted by tref

Was there 7 team fouls on the board? You'd think 1 of the 3 officials would check the clock following a whistle...

No, the scoreboard actually jumped from 6 fouls listed to 8. This also drew attention to the error, although after the fact. What might have drawn attention was the fact the scoreboard stayed on "6" for two fouls in a row, but the two fouls occurred within probably 30 seconds (real time, not clock time) of each other and it was bang-bang.

I don't think anything was fishy, btw. From watching it play out, and this is just my opinion, the R was trying to calculate in his head if the error was still correctible because I doubt it's something he deals with every day. While he was doing that, the ball became live. I thought he made a legit effort to look at correcting it, but then realized the correctible time period had lapsed. That was the reason I asked, so I don't make a similar mistake in the future. It's also why I'm not criticizing, these guys are working varsity games and I'm not. They've been at it alot longer and maybe I missed something.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

Let's not blame the coach for this one. This one is squarely on the table (BOTH scorer's have a book) and the officials. The coach MAY have been trying to get away with something, but it COULD NOT happen without mistakes being made by the others.

I'm not blaming the coach at all. I ALWAYS blame the table AND/OR officials for correctable errors. But there are those who will say its Coach B's fault (defensive coach) for not insisting that Team A should be shooting free throws.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Maineac

No, the scoreboard actually jumped from 6 fouls listed to 8. This also drew attention to the error, although after the fact. What might have drawn attention was the fact the scoreboard stayed on "6" for two fouls in a row, but the two fouls occurred within probably 30 seconds (real time, not clock time) of each other and it was bang-bang.

I still say...

Originally Posted by tref

You'd think 1 of the 3 officials would check the clock following a whistle...
Personally, I like the crew to be aware at 6.

Originally Posted by Maineac

I don't think anything was fishy, btw. From watching it play out, and this is just my opinion, the R was trying to calculate in his head if the error was still correctible because I doubt it's something he deals with every day. While he was doing that, the ball became live. I thought he made a legit effort to look at correcting it, but then realized the correctible time period had lapsed.

Originally Posted by tref

Hmmmm sounds like coach shouldve followed CE procedures & got a t/o.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by tref

Hmmmm sounds like coach shouldve followed CE procedures & got a t/o.

Hmmm...sounds like the Coach did exactly what a Coach should do and brought the discrepancy to the attention of the nearest official. From that point on, it's all on the official for not taking care of business.

[tref]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Hmmm...sounds like the Coach did exactly what a Coach should do and brought the discrepancy to the attention of the nearest official. From that point on, it's all on the official for not taking care of business.

I guess they can do it that way, but the good coaches know:

10-5 ART. 1

The head coach shall remain seated on the team bench, except:

c. The head coach may stand and/or leave the coaching box to confer with personnel at the scorer's table to request a time-out as in 5-8-4.


5-8 ART. 4

Time-out occurs and the clock, if running, shall be stopped when an official:

Responds to the scorer's signal to grant a coach's request that a correctable error, as in 2-10, or a timing, scoring or alternating-possession mistake be prevented or rectified. The appeal to the official shall be presented at the scorer's table where a coach of each team may be present.

But whatever, IJS

[Clark Kent]

Originally Posted by tref

I guess they can do it that way, but the good coaches know:

10-5 ART. 1

The head coach shall remain seated on the team bench, except:

c. The head coach may stand and/or leave the coaching box to confer with personnel at the scorer's table to request a time-out as in 5-8-4.


5-8 ART. 4

Time-out occurs and the clock, if running, shall be stopped when an official:

Responds to the scorer's signal to grant a coach's request that a correctable error, as in 2-10, or a timing, scoring or alternating-possession mistake be prevented or rectified. The appeal to the official shall be presented at the scorer's table where a coach of each team may be present.

But whatever, IJS

In the case where a coach calls a timeout to correct a correctable error and then we as officials correct it we don't charge the coach a timeout. Is that correct or have I been watching too many NFL games with the challenge flag?