What would you do?

jeffpea · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 15, 2010, 10:31am

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockyroad

The primary defender. We all get that...and we all get that if a secondary defender comes across, the L should have the whistle on that.

But that's not what you said in your first post...you flat-out said that the C should NEVER have a whistle on block/charge going to the basket. And that is incorrect.

sometimes officials "see" things that just are there...obviously, based on rockyroad's last post - we can now say that sometimes officials "read" things that just aren't there...

I did not use the word NEVER. My exact words were: "the C should not have a whistle on block/charge plays going to the basket"....while anyone can try to parse what that means...we all can agree that "NEVER" did not appear, correct?

jeffpea · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 15, 2010, 10:41am

the defender that we are all looking at is the on-ball defender (the one who is getting beat on the drive to the basket). the defender who is involved in the block/charge play (99.9% of the time) is the weak-side defender coming across the lane. it is extremely difficult for the C to officiate that play correctly (the C can have a whistle and make a call - but his call accuracy is going to be significantly lower than the L who has a better look at this play).

if I am a assignor of officials, on-site game observer, coach, official, player, or fan, then I want the call to be correct. if I want the call to be correct, then I want the official who is in the best position with the best view of the play...that would be the L on block/charge plays going to the basket from C.

after all, last years Duke vs Butler NCAA Championship game has shown us that when the crew blew their whistles - they were correct 90% of the time; when they didn't blow their whistles - they were correct only 50% of the time...the key reason they didn't blow their whistle?...they were out of position and could not see the play (all of this, btw, is from the NCAA National Coordinator of Officials)...

if you want to, continue to have C make the call on plays as described in the OP, but just know that the accuracy of that call has been/is now/and will continue to be, lower than allowing the L to make that call.

mbyron · #3 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 15, 2010, 10:42am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffpea

sometimes officials "see" things that just are there...obviously, based on rockyroad's last post - we can now say that sometimes officials "read" things that just aren't there...

I did not use the word NEVER. My exact words were: "the C should not have a whistle on block/charge plays going to the basket"....while anyone can try to parse what that means...we all can agree that "NEVER" did not appear, correct?

Don't quibble. Your statement entails either a general or a universal rule. Both are wrong.

That's ok. We all make mistakes. Just own them.

jeffpea · #4 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 15, 2010, 12:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbyron

Don't quibble. Your statement entails either a general or a universal rule. Both are wrong.

That's ok. We all make mistakes. Just own them.

ever heard "the tape doesn't lie"?...maybe not because a vast percentage of high school officials never watch tape to improve their accuracy, positioning, mechanics, or skills....

i may get calls wrong, but it's not because I was too stubborn to let the official with the best view make the call.

if you have any interest in improving as an official, you'll analyze plays and figure out a better way to call them....

keep having the C call the block/charge play going to the basket...you and Stevie Wonder will have about the same chance of getting it right!

Jurassic Referee · #5 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 15, 2010, 02:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffpea

ever heard "the tape doesn't lie"?...maybe not because a vast percentage of high school officials never watch tape to improve their accuracy, positioning, mechanics, or skills....

i may get calls wrong, but it's not because I was too stubborn to let the official with the best view make the call.

if you have any interest in improving as an official, you'll analyze plays and figure out a better way to call them....

keep having the C call the block/charge play going to the basket...you and Stevie Wonder will have about the same chance of getting it right!

Wow!

Just "WOW"!

Not really the best way to justify your position imo fwiw, Jeff.

...just saying.....

rockyroad · #6 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 15, 2010, 02:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Wow!

Just "WOW"!

Not really the best way to justify your position imo fwiw, Jeff.

...just saying.....

Wellllll,J.R... you know us terrible High School refs who never watch no film or nothun...we're just too darn stubborn to ever improve. Especially on those pesky block/charge plays.

rockyroad · #7 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 15, 2010, 12:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffpea

sometimes officials "see" things that just are there...obviously, based on rockyroad's last post - we can now say that sometimes officials "read" things that just aren't there...

I did not use the word NEVER. My exact words were: "the C should not have a whistle on block/charge plays going to the basket"....while anyone can try to parse what that means...we all can agree that "NEVER" did not appear, correct?

Hard to stay on your feet while doing all that back-pedaling?

So A3 catches a pass on the wing on C's side...B is playing a 2-3 zone and has lost track of A3. There is no defender within 10 feet of him. A3 drives to the basket where B4 is standing and waiting - B4 has clearly established LGP. The expected crash ensues...you would have the C wait for the L to call this because in your blanket-statement world the C should not have a whistle on this type of play. Even though there was nothing else for the C to be looking at? Even though it is clearly on the C's side of the key?

Ok...if you say so.

fullor30 · #8 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 15, 2010, 12:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockyroad

hard to stay on your feet while doing all that back-pedaling?

So a3 catches a pass on the wing on c's side...b is playing a 2-3 zone and has lost track of a3. There is no defender within 10 feet of him. A3 drives to the basket where b4 is standing and waiting - b4 has clearly established lgp. The expected crash ensues...you would have the c wait for the l to call this because in your blanket-statement world the c should not have a whistle on this type of play. Even though there was nothing else for the c to be looking at? Even though it is clearly on the c's side of the key?

Ok...if you say so.

+1,000

Camron Rust · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 15, 2010, 02:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffpea

sometimes officials "see" things that just are there...obviously, based on rockyroad's last post - we can now say that sometimes officials "read" things that just aren't there...

I did not use the word NEVER. My exact words were: "the C should not have a whistle on block/charge plays going to the basket"....while anyone can try to parse what that means...we all can agree that "NEVER" did not appear, correct?

Huh?

Exactly what part of ""the C should not have a whistle" allows for the possibility that the C could have a whistle? That is 100% synonymous with "NEVER".

zm1283 · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 15, 2010, 04:47pm

To pile on here, everything I've been taught and observed about 3-whistle mechanics goes against what jeffpea is saying. I see D1 officials as Center make this call quite often.

rockyroad · #11 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 15, 2010, 04:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by zm1283

To pile on here, everything I've been taught and observed about 3-whistle mechanics goes against what jeffpea is saying. I see D1 officials as Center make this call quite often.

Well they must not be watching any film and trying to improve then...