The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 14, 2010, 09:53am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 125
What would you do?

HS game:

I at the C position. White 23 drives the lane in my PCA. I am referring the defense. Blue 11 has a legal guarding position and gets plowed over. I blow my whistle and look across the key and the 'L' has a whistle. I make eye contact with him and wait. The game is at stand still. I waited about a second (so it seems). I call the charge. White coach is upset, yada yada yada.

At half time, as soon as we get in the locker room, that same official gets in my face telling me that I was out of position, it was his primary, and I didn't even look at him. I said I waited to see what you had. He said that he had a foul on the arm. I told him that blue 11 had legal guarding position. AT that time he calls me a liar.

What would you do now?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 14, 2010, 09:56am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Detroit Metro
Posts: 509
Quote:
Originally Posted by iref4him View Post
HS game:

I at the C position. White 23 drives the lane in my PCA. I am referring the defense. Blue 11 has a legal guarding position and gets plowed over. I blow my whistle and look across the key and the 'L' has a whistle. I make eye contact with him and wait. The game is at stand still. I waited about a second (so it seems). I call the charge. White coach is upset, yada yada yada.

At half time, as soon as we get in the locker room, that same official gets in my face telling me that I was out of position, it was his primary, and I didn't even look at him. I said I waited to see what you had. He said that he had a foul on the arm. I told him that blue 11 had legal guarding position. AT that time he calls me a liar.

What would you do now?
The biggest issue is that your partner called you a liar.

I would review PCAs with the crew and double whistles.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 14, 2010, 10:02am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 125
Exactly!!! That was the issue!!! Earlier in the game I had two double whistles with the other official in the game (3 man). No issue with him. This official that called me a liar caused a lot of tension in the locker room.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 14, 2010, 10:14am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by iref4him View Post
HS game:

What would you do now?
Work a two man crew since I would lay him out if he got in my face

Just joking. Actually, I would ask him to calm down and let's talk about this like professionals. If he refused to do so, I would ignore him and request not to be assigned with him in the future.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 14, 2010, 10:39am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobbyinTN View Post
Work a two man crew since I would lay him out if he got in my face

Just joking. Actually, I would ask him to calm down and let's talk about this like professionals. If he refused to do so, I would ignore him and request not to be assigned with him in the future.
I go with Robby. Lay him out, hide him in the locker room some where. And go out there and work a 2 man. If anyone asks, he's battling a stomach bug and is in the locker room recovering.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 14, 2010, 10:58am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 547
there are a couple of issues here, IMHO:

1) the C should not have a whistle on block/charge plays going to the basket. these plays should be called by the Lead...because the Lead has the best view of where the defender came from, when he got there, and if he established LGP (remember, the defender that takes the charge is not the primary-on-ball-defender...it's the defender coming over from the help-side...the Lead is the only official with a good view on this play).

When C blows the whistle, your situation is what typicalls happens: both C and L have a whistle and both stand there waiting for the other to take the call. Usually one of two things happens: you have a blarge (which we'd like to avoid - but if it happens, so what - just administer it by rule and move on) or each official looks like they don't know what to call (when really they each know what to call there just not sure who should call it). In either scenario - it's not the best outcome...

2) the half-time comments. simly turn to your 3rd partner and say: "well, looks like you and I will have to work hard in the second half, because anyone who can't tell when someone is looking at him and uses the "liar, liar, pants on fire" defense is a terrible official and shouldn't be working this game"....

that otta take care of the situation!
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 14, 2010, 11:02am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffpea View Post
there are a couple of issues here, IMHO:

1) the C should not have a whistle on block/charge plays going to the basket. these plays should be called by the Lead...because the Lead has the best view of where the defender came from, when he got there, and if he established LGP (remember, the defender that takes the charge is not the primary-on-ball-defender...it's the defender coming over from the help-side...the Lead is the only official with a good view on this play).
Crews that I work with generally give this play to the C. The protocol is that if a shooter starts in your PCA, you take them all the way in. This type of play normally ends across the paint from the lead, techinically out of his/her area. It's ok to have a double whistle in this scenario, but from my understanding, it's the C's call. YMMV.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 14, 2010, 11:05am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 26
If he caught the ball around the elbow area of your primary ("C") and drove to the lane you were right by blowing the whistle. Lead should have a slow whistle if anything, knowing it came from your primary.

I don't agree with jeffpea

Last edited by hawkeyegb; Tue Dec 14, 2010 at 11:07am.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 14, 2010, 11:06am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: depends on your perspective
Posts: 697
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILRef80 View Post
Crews that I work with generally give this play to the C. The protocol is that if a shooter starts in your PCA, you take them all the way in. This type of play normally ends across the paint from the lead, techinically out of his/her area. It's ok to have a double whistle in this scenario, but from my understanding, it's the C's call. YMMV.
Glad you contributed that comment as that is the protocol in the area where I work.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 14, 2010, 11:11am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,856
Quote:
Originally Posted by DLH17 View Post
Glad you contributed that comment as that is the protocol in the area where I work.
Where I come from...we pre-game this to be the L's call IF it is a secondary defender in the L's primary.
__________________
Dan Ivey
Tri-City Sports Officials Asso. (TCSOA)
Member since 1989
Richland, WA
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 14, 2010, 11:56am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeyegb View Post
If he caught the ball around the elbow area of your primary ("C") and drove to the lane you were right by blowing the whistle. Lead should have a slow whistle if anything, knowing it came from your primary.

I don't agree with jeffpea
I second this
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 14, 2010, 11:56am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffpea View Post
there are a couple of issues here, IMHO:

1) the C should not have a whistle on block/charge plays going to the basket. these plays should be called by the Lead...because the Lead has the best view of where the defender came from, when he got there, and if he established LGP (remember, the defender that takes the charge is not the primary-on-ball-defender...it's the defender coming over from the help-side...the Lead is the only official with a good view on this play).

When C blows the whistle, your situation is what typicalls happens: both C and L have a whistle and both stand there waiting for the other to take the call. Usually one of two things happens: you have a blarge (which we'd like to avoid - but if it happens, so what - just administer it by rule and move on) or each official looks like they don't know what to call (when really they each know what to call there just not sure who should call it). In either scenario - it's not the best outcome...

2) the half-time comments. simly turn to your 3rd partner and say: "well, looks like you and I will have to work hard in the second half, because anyone who can't tell when someone is looking at him and uses the "liar, liar, pants on fire" defense is a terrible official and shouldn't be working this game"....

that otta take care of the situation!
Regarding your first point....Maybe I'm misunderstanding the scenario, but if there was a crash between the dribbler and the primary defender, and that crash happened in C's primary, lead has no business getting it. That can only lead to trouble. If the crash was in the paint and/or it was between the ball handler and a secondary defender, then lead should have first crack. C should have a whistle and withhold a signal.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 14, 2010, 11:59am
certified Hot Mom tester
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: only in my own mind, such as it is
Posts: 12,918
Quote:
Originally Posted by iref4him View Post
he calls me a liar. What would you do now?
Simple - call my buddy Guido. Nuff said.
__________________
Yom HaShoah
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 14, 2010, 01:05pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: MST
Posts: 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by RookieDude View Post
Where I come from...we pre-game this to be the L's call IF it is a secondary defender in the L's primary.
Even if it is coming from C's primary and L is across the paint?
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 14, 2010, 01:41pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: In a little pink house
Posts: 5,289
Send a message via AIM to Back In The Saddle Send a message via MSN to Back In The Saddle Send a message via Yahoo to Back In The Saddle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Kent View Post
Even if it is coming from C's primary and L is across the paint?
The alternative would be...C takes first crack at contact involving both primary and secondary defenders? The C has to see two whole plays? At the same time? Based on your pseudonym, I'll assume that you are capable of doing that consistently.

But to this earth-bound mortal it makes more sense that while the C is focused on the primary defender, watching that whole play, the L picks up any secondary defender and can see that whole play. Of course, it would be better if he pinched the paint on this.
__________________
"It is not enough to do your best; you must know what to do, and then do your best." - W. Edwards Deming
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:00am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1