What would you do?

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by DLH17

Glad you contributed that comment as that is the protocol in the area where I work.

Where I come from...we pre-game this to be the L's call IF it is a secondary defender in the L's primary.

[Clark Kent]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

Where I come from...we pre-game this to be the L's call IF it is a secondary defender in the L's primary.

Even if it is coming from C's primary and L is across the paint?

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

Even if it is coming from C's primary and L is across the paint?

The alternative would be...C takes first crack at contact involving both primary and secondary defenders? The C has to see two whole plays? At the same time? Based on your pseudonym, I'll assume that you are capable of doing that consistently.

But to this earth-bound mortal it makes more sense that while the C is focused on the primary defender, watching that whole play, the L picks up any secondary defender and can see that whole play. Of course, it would be better if he pinched the paint on this.

[jeffpea]

since this is a discussion board...I'll ask a question for discussion: let's assume we ALL know that a good official referees the defense.... "When at C and a drive to the basket starts in your area, what defender are you looking at?"

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

since this is a discussion board...I'll ask a question for discussion: let's assume we ALL know that a good official referees the defense.... "When at C and a drive to the basket starts in your area, what defender are you looking at?"

The primary defender. We all get that...and we all get that if a secondary defender comes across, the L should have the whistle on that.

But that's not what you said in your first post...you flat-out said that the C should NEVER have a whistle on block/charge going to the basket. And that is incorrect.

[jeffpea]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

The primary defender. We all get that...and we all get that if a secondary defender comes across, the L should have the whistle on that.

But that's not what you said in your first post...you flat-out said that the C should NEVER have a whistle on block/charge going to the basket. And that is incorrect.

sometimes officials "see" things that just are there...obviously, based on rockyroad's last post - we can now say that sometimes officials "read" things that just aren't there...

I did not use the word NEVER. My exact words were: "the C should not have a whistle on block/charge plays going to the basket"....while anyone can try to parse what that means...we all can agree that "NEVER" did not appear, correct?

[jeffpea]

the defender that we are all looking at is the on-ball defender (the one who is getting beat on the drive to the basket). the defender who is involved in the block/charge play (99.9% of the time) is the weak-side defender coming across the lane. it is extremely difficult for the C to officiate that play correctly (the C can have a whistle and make a call - but his call accuracy is going to be significantly lower than the L who has a better look at this play).

if I am a assignor of officials, on-site game observer, coach, official, player, or fan, then I want the call to be correct. if I want the call to be correct, then I want the official who is in the best position with the best view of the play...that would be the L on block/charge plays going to the basket from C.

after all, last years Duke vs Butler NCAA Championship game has shown us that when the crew blew their whistles - they were correct 90% of the time; when they didn't blow their whistles - they were correct only 50% of the time...the key reason they didn't blow their whistle?...they were out of position and could not see the play (all of this, btw, is from the NCAA National Coordinator of Officials)...

if you want to, continue to have C make the call on plays as described in the OP, but just know that the accuracy of that call has been/is now/and will continue to be, lower than allowing the L to make that call.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

sometimes officials "see" things that just are there...obviously, based on rockyroad's last post - we can now say that sometimes officials "read" things that just aren't there...

I did not use the word NEVER. My exact words were: "the C should not have a whistle on block/charge plays going to the basket"....while anyone can try to parse what that means...we all can agree that "NEVER" did not appear, correct?

Don't quibble. Your statement entails either a general or a universal rule. Both are wrong.

That's ok. We all make mistakes. Just own them.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

sometimes officials "see" things that just are there...obviously, based on rockyroad's last post - we can now say that sometimes officials "read" things that just aren't there...

I did not use the word NEVER. My exact words were: "the C should not have a whistle on block/charge plays going to the basket"....while anyone can try to parse what that means...we all can agree that "NEVER" did not appear, correct?

Hard to stay on your feet while doing all that back-pedaling?

So A3 catches a pass on the wing on C's side...B is playing a 2-3 zone and has lost track of A3. There is no defender within 10 feet of him. A3 drives to the basket where B4 is standing and waiting - B4 has clearly established LGP. The expected crash ensues...you would have the C wait for the L to call this because in your blanket-statement world the C should not have a whistle on this type of play. Even though there was nothing else for the C to be looking at? Even though it is clearly on the C's side of the key?

Ok...if you say so.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

sometimes officials "see" things that just are there...obviously, based on rockyroad's last post - we can now say that sometimes officials "read" things that just aren't there...

I did not use the word NEVER. My exact words were: "the C should not have a whistle on block/charge plays going to the basket"....while anyone can try to parse what that means...we all can agree that "NEVER" did not appear, correct?

Huh?

Exactly what part of ""the C should not have a whistle" allows for the possibility that the C could have a whistle? That is 100% synonymous with "NEVER".

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by iref4him

HS game:

I at the C position. White 23 drives the lane in my PCA. I am referring the defense. Blue 11 has a legal guarding position and gets plowed over. ...

Originally Posted by jeffpea

since this is a discussion board...I'll ask a question for discussion: let's assume we ALL know that a good official referees the defense.... "When at C and a drive to the basket starts in your area, what defender are you looking at?"

But in this scenario the OP said he was ref'n the defense and the play was in his PCA. Maybe it was a zone defense and no one was on W23 when he started his drive.

[BLydic]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

Where I come from...we pre-game this to be the L's call IF it is a secondary defender in the L's primary.

+1 with emphasis on including this in your pre-game