What would you do?

[jeffpea]

there are a couple of issues here, IMHO:

1) the C should not have a whistle on block/charge plays going to the basket. these plays should be called by the Lead...because the Lead has the best view of where the defender came from, when he got there, and if he established LGP (remember, the defender that takes the charge is not the primary-on-ball-defender...it's the defender coming over from the help-side...the Lead is the only official with a good view on this play).

When C blows the whistle, your situation is what typicalls happens: both C and L have a whistle and both stand there waiting for the other to take the call. Usually one of two things happens: you have a blarge (which we'd like to avoid - but if it happens, so what - just administer it by rule and move on) or each official looks like they don't know what to call (when really they each know what to call there just not sure who should call it). In either scenario - it's not the best outcome...

2) the half-time comments. simly turn to your 3rd partner and say: "well, looks like you and I will have to work hard in the second half, because anyone who can't tell when someone is looking at him and uses the "liar, liar, pants on fire" defense is a terrible official and shouldn't be working this game"....

that otta take care of the situation!

[ILRef80]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

there are a couple of issues here, IMHO:

1) the C should not have a whistle on block/charge plays going to the basket. these plays should be called by the Lead...because the Lead has the best view of where the defender came from, when he got there, and if he established LGP (remember, the defender that takes the charge is not the primary-on-ball-defender...it's the defender coming over from the help-side...the Lead is the only official with a good view on this play).

Crews that I work with generally give this play to the C. The protocol is that if a shooter starts in your PCA, you take them all the way in. This type of play normally ends across the paint from the lead, techinically out of his/her area. It's ok to have a double whistle in this scenario, but from my understanding, it's the C's call. YMMV.

[DLH17]

Originally Posted by ILRef80

Crews that I work with generally give this play to the C. The protocol is that if a shooter starts in your PCA, you take them all the way in. This type of play normally ends across the paint from the lead, techinically out of his/her area. It's ok to have a double whistle in this scenario, but from my understanding, it's the C's call. YMMV.

Glad you contributed that comment as that is the protocol in the area where I work.

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by DLH17

Glad you contributed that comment as that is the protocol in the area where I work.

Where I come from...we pre-game this to be the L's call IF it is a secondary defender in the L's primary.

[Clark Kent]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

Where I come from...we pre-game this to be the L's call IF it is a secondary defender in the L's primary.

Even if it is coming from C's primary and L is across the paint?

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

Even if it is coming from C's primary and L is across the paint?

The alternative would be...C takes first crack at contact involving both primary and secondary defenders? The C has to see two whole plays? At the same time? Based on your pseudonym, I'll assume that you are capable of doing that consistently.

But to this earth-bound mortal it makes more sense that while the C is focused on the primary defender, watching that whole play, the L picks up any secondary defender and can see that whole play. Of course, it would be better if he pinched the paint on this.

[jeffpea]

since this is a discussion board...I'll ask a question for discussion: let's assume we ALL know that a good official referees the defense.... "When at C and a drive to the basket starts in your area, what defender are you looking at?"

[BLydic]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

Where I come from...we pre-game this to be the L's call IF it is a secondary defender in the L's primary.

+1 with emphasis on including this in your pre-game

[hawkeyegb]

If he caught the ball around the elbow area of your primary ("C") and drove to the lane you were right by blowing the whistle. Lead should have a slow whistle if anything, knowing it came from your primary.

I don't agree with jeffpea

[kyref10]

Originally Posted by hawkeyegb

If he caught the ball around the elbow area of your primary ("C") and drove to the lane you were right by blowing the whistle. Lead should have a slow whistle if anything, knowing it came from your primary.

I don't agree with jeffpea

I second this

[JS 20]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

there are a couple of issues here, IMHO:

1) the C should not have a whistle on block/charge plays going to the basket. these plays should be called by the Lead...because the Lead has the best view of where the defender came from, when he got there, and if he established LGP (remember, the defender that takes the charge is not the primary-on-ball-defender...it's the defender coming over from the help-side...the Lead is the only official with a good view on this play).

When C blows the whistle, your situation is what typicalls happens: both C and L have a whistle and both stand there waiting for the other to take the call. Usually one of two things happens: you have a blarge (which we'd like to avoid - but if it happens, so what - just administer it by rule and move on) or each official looks like they don't know what to call (when really they each know what to call there just not sure who should call it). In either scenario - it's not the best outcome...

2) the half-time comments. simly turn to your 3rd partner and say: "well, looks like you and I will have to work hard in the second half, because anyone who can't tell when someone is looking at him and uses the "liar, liar, pants on fire" defense is a terrible official and shouldn't be working this game"....

that otta take care of the situation!

Regarding your first point....Maybe I'm misunderstanding the scenario, but if there was a crash between the dribbler and the primary defender, and that crash happened in C's primary, lead has no business getting it. That can only lead to trouble. If the crash was in the paint and/or it was between the ball handler and a secondary defender, then lead should have first crack. C should have a whistle and withhold a signal.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

there are a couple of issues here, IMHO:

1) the C should not have a whistle on block/charge plays going to the basket. these plays should be called by the Lead...because the Lead has the best view of where the defender came from, when he got there, and if he established LGP (remember, the defender that takes the charge is not the primary-on-ball-defender...it's the defender coming over from the help-side...the Lead is the only official with a good view on this play).

Count me as one who disagrees with this as well. In our area the general rule is that as the C or T you take a play that starts in your primary all the way to the basket. Yes, the L will most likely be responsible for the secondary defender BUT the OP does not mention if it was a secondary or primary defender.

Also, there are instances where the secondary defender comes from the C's area if the play comes from the T side to the C's side of the paint and before the L has come over.

Either way, I completely disagree with a blanket statement that the C should not have a call on block/charges going to the basket or that the help side defender is always the one who takes, or attempts to take, the charge.