Survey says.....

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by DLH17

The fact he identified himself as a qualified professional and the dad nodding did help reduce the awkward factor - though there was still some uncertainty in me. The kid turned out ok....sat in the bleacher the rest of the game with his leg elevated and limped off the court after the game on him own. I guess, that's the most important thing.

As I read this thread and reflect on personal experiences, I wonder if doing much more than fetching ice or finding a clean towel puts us in a situation of more risk than we really want in most injury situations, regardless of our professional merits off the court.

I don't know if it is true in every state, but in IL at least there is a Good Samaratin law that says someone cannot be sued if something goes wrong when they are simply trying to help an injured person. Of course, if there are qualified individuals available, then by all means step aside and let them do what they can. And if the player is in no immediate danger, I won't be stepping in right away because I don't have any real medical training, other than CPR.

But we shouldn't be automatically afraid to help, simply because we might cause some possible unknown harm. And if a partner of mine told me they were trained in first aid, I would gladly let them step in with out giving it a second thought.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

I don't know if it is true in every state, but in IL at least there is a Good Samaratin law that says someone cannot be sued if something goes wrong when they are simply trying to help an injured person. Of course, if there are qualified individuals available, then by all means step aside and let them do what they can. And if the player is in no immediate danger, I won't be stepping in right away because I don't have any real medical training, other than CPR.

But we shouldn't be automatically afraid to help, simply because we might cause some possible unknown harm. And if a partner of mine told me they were trained in first aid, I would gladly let them step in with out giving it a second thought.

I was also under the impression that some states have laws requiring those qualified as EMTs to stop and render assistance in emergencies. Now, whether your partners qualifications indeed subject him to such requirements in your state is a question, as is whether the situation described qualifies as such a situation.

Often times, however, professional ethics go farther than state law requirements. Add to that the understanding that your partner may have simply felt obligated to offer his assistance, thinking he was the most qualified.

[DLH17]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I was also under the impression that some states have laws requiring those qualified as EMTs to stop and render assistance in emergencies. Now, whether your partners qualifications indeed subject him to such requirements in your state is a question, as is whether the situation described qualifies as such a situation.

Often times, however, professional ethics go farther than state law requirements. Add to that the understanding that your partner may have simply felt obligated to offer his assistance, thinking he was the most qualified.

Based on what I'm learning from this conversation, it sounds like my partner did the right thing and went about doing it the right way.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by DLH17

Based on what I'm learning from this conversation, it sounds like my partner did the right thing and went about doing it the right way.

I think so, but I wasn't there; and it doesn't make it less awkward as he's opening himself up to cheap shots.

[DLH17]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I think so, but I wasn't there; and it doesn't make it less awkward as he's opening himself up to cheap shots.

Not sure what that means. Help me out.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by DLH17

Not sure what that means. Help me out.

Just saying that, 1) regardless of why he does it, it's still going to feel awkward to a partner who isn't used to it. We're always told to get away from the player in this situation, so when a partner goes against that grain for whatever reason, it's gonna feel weird. 2) If the injury happens in a crowd, and the coach thinks something funky happened, an official is putting himself in a geographically vulnerable position, opening himself up to a whole lot of verbal attack from coach and parents that a little separation would help with. It's the very reason for #1 above.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by grunewar

...

My P and I stood back and sent the teams to their benches, but kept them on the floor.

Originally Posted by DLH17

.... Coach is summomed, players sent to direction of bench and told to stay on floor.

Why?

You've got a potentially inflamatory situation with the injury. You have a delay of unknown length...but if you've sent them to the bench area, you already have decided it is not going to be quick. For all practical purposes, this is an intermission/timeout. Let them sit if they wish.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

For all practical purposes, this is an intermission/timeout. Let them sit if they wish.

Fair enough. Got it.

[DLH17]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Why?

You've got a potentially inflamatory situation with the injury. You have a delay of unknown length...but if you've sent them to the bench area, you already have decided it is not going to be quick. For all practical purposes, this is an intermission/timeout. Let them sit if they wish.

Why? Standard protocol. Neither my partner nor I knew for sure when it happened if it would be a longer or shorter duration. As the whole scene played out, it did turn into a bit of an extended deal (more than a sprained ankle or a hard fall where the player take a few minutes to gather himself and head off the court), I noticed some of the players took a break for water and may have taken a seat. One or two came back over to check on their teammate. The other team looked on. No big deal.

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

For the record, Nevada would have been standing down at the other end of the court with his partners discussing something of great importance while the coach was on the floor attending to his player. Plus we wouldn't be returning until the coach was back at his bench. In short, there would not have been an opportunity for the coach to do his little act with me because I wouldn't have been there.
.

Had the official been standing at the other end of the court I never would have approached him. To me, THAT would have been crossing a line. But since he was right there, and I didn't raise my voice or do any crazy body movements, I thought it was ok.
As for the dad, considering his girl weighs in the in the upper 200's and he picked her up and carried her off, let's just say I LIKE IT when I am on his good side!!! I just made sure I was between him and the other teams bench and prayed that he wouldn't do anything rash as the other coach was also a real big guy. Images of the new "What would you do for a Klondike ice cream sandwich" commercials were in my head!!

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Unless, of course, game admin disagrees and allows the parent to stay.

I'm not sure if this was serious... But if we eject someone, and Game Admin refuses to enforce, we're done.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Sigh. This ridiculous stance agan.

It is so arrogant to think that you are so much bigger than the game that you're not going to allow a parent to check on their injured child. I can guarantee that if somebody ever pulled that stunt in our association, they'd find themselves looking for assignments somewhere else.

Obviously you only work in pristine air-conditioned conditions with newly painted walls where everyone is cheerful and just there for the kids. In real life - letting parents come on the court is just asking for an escalation of the situation.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Obviously you only work in pristine air-conditioned conditions with newly painted walls where everyone is cheerful and just there for the kids. In real life - letting parents come on the court is just asking for an escalation of the situation.

Let me present a scenario.

A1 lands on a teammate's foot and tumbles into the wall, hitting his head knocking him unconscious. As you turn to beckon the coach, Dad comes running down the bleachers making a bee line for his son. His focus never leaves his child, he never so much as looks at the officials.

Take away the unconscious child, and now let's make it just the ankle or knee sprain from landing on his teammate's foot. Dad comes down to tend to his son, who is screaming in pain. Whatchagonnado?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Let me present a scenario.

A1 lands on a teammate's foot and tumbles into the wall, hitting his head knocking him unconscious. As you turn to beckon the coach, Dad comes running down the bleachers making a bee line for his son. His focus never leaves his child, he never so much as looks at the officials.

Take away the unconscious child, and now let's make it just the ankle or knee sprain from landing on his teammate's foot. Dad comes down to tend to his son, who is screaming in pain. Whatchagonnado?

I think we can agree that this scenario is a huge departure from what we were talking about.

The original situation included an already incensed parent. Big difference

However, I still maintain that having parents (fans, girlfriends, uncles, whatever) coming out of the stands onto the court is asking for trouble.

Start with - how in the world do YOU know this guy is his dad? Move on to - "Dad's" concern for his son begins to abate as he's being tended to, then he
decides it's YOUR fault for letting the game get out of control (or whatever).

Coaches and players know what is expected of them, behavior-wise, and know there are repercussions for crossing the line. Parents, fans, etc do not. You may get away with this 99 times. Then you may sincerely regret the 100th.

[DLH17]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I think we can agree that this scenario is a huge departure from what we were talking about.

The original situation included an already incensed parent. Big difference

However, I still maintain that having parents (fans, girlfriends, uncles, whatever) coming out of the stands onto the court is asking for trouble.

Start with - how in the world do YOU know this guy is his dad? Move on to - "Dad's" concern for his son begins to abate as he's being tended to, then he
decides it's YOUR fault for letting the game get out of control (or whatever).

Coaches and players know what is expected of them, behavior-wise, and know there are repercussions for crossing the line. Parents, fans, etc do not. You may get away with this 99 times. Then you may sincerely regret the 100th.

....which is another reason why i'm hesitant to see officials touch a kid for any reason (even tho, in some situations like relaxed summer ball - it may not be as big a deal). we never really know who we are dealing with. said player's dad could be a psycho, over protective, my johnny is my world nutbag.