Survey says.....

[BktBallRef]

Sigh. This ridiculous stance agan.

It is so arrogant to think that you are so much bigger than the game that you're not going to allow a parent to check on their injured child. I can guarantee that if somebody ever pulled that stunt in our association, they'd find themselves looking for assignments somewhere else.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Sigh. This ridiculous stance agan.

It is so arrogant to think that you are so much bigger than the game that you're not going to allow a parent to check on their injured child. I can guarantee that if somebody ever pulled that stunt in our association, they'd find themselves looking for assignments somewhere else.

I never intend to find out the consequences of such a move in my association. While I won't be standing near the player or coach, as Nevada suggests, I will have other things to discuss and the father's brief presence on the court won't be noticed.

Now, if Dad decides to approach me in anger, that's a different story.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Sigh. This ridiculous stance agan.

It is so arrogant to think that you are so much bigger than the game that you're not going to allow a parent to check on their injured child. I can guarantee that if somebody ever pulled that stunt in our association, they'd find themselves looking for assignments somewhere else.

Professional suicide at any level. Don't be that guy.

[grunewar]

I was doing a girls AAU Tourney this past weekend when a point guard was driving hard to the basket, slipt and fell and went down hard on the back of her head. She was down for several minutes with only the coach administering to her.

My P and I stood back and sent the teams to their benches, but kept them on the floor.

As the player finally recovered and got to her feet, the coach began to escort her to the bench. Her dad came around the side of the court and then to the endline to help her off the court and to go to the bathroom and outside for some fresh air.

TWEET. Game back on.

I know we've had this discussion before, but under these circumstances, I don't think I would have done anything if dad/mom came on the court to administer to their injured child.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by grunewar

I was doing a girls AAU Tourney this past weekend when a point guard was driving hard to the basket, slipt and fell and went down hard on the back of her head. She was down for several minutes with only the coach administering to her.

My P and I stood back and sent the teams to their benches, but kept them on the floor.

As the player finally recovered and got to her feet, the coach began to escort her to the bench. Her dad came around the side of the court and then to the endline to help her off the court and to go to the bathroom and outside for some fresh air.

TWEET. Game back on.

I know we've had this discussion before, but under these circumstances, I don't think I would have done anything if dad/mom came on the court to administer to their injured child.

My last weekend of AAU basketball a kid landed on his head and most definitely suffered a concussion. Sent the players to the their benches (to sit down if they so desired) and then advised the coaches that there was absolutely no rush at all to get the player up. We then stood back from the activity until the player was removed from the court. One adult from the stands came on the court to tend to the hurt player. I didn't concern myself one bit with that person.

[DLH17]

7th grade summer league last week - kid playing defense moving full speed one direction and stops suddenly by putting all his weight on right leg at a tough angle. Knee buckles. Goes down on the spot in pain. Coach is summomed, players sent to direction of bench and told to stay on floor. A few moments after the coach starts talking to the kid, my partner kneels down and IDs himself as some type of full time rescue personnel. The dad nods and partner starts asking the kid if he can help him be more comfortable by turning his foot and straightening his leg so the kid could lay down. About that time, dad says "well, this guy here (standing next to him) is an ER doc". Partner immed defers.

You know, I've always been instructed to never touch a kid who is injured in any way. NEVER.

So, this situation was interesting because we had coach, dad and ER doc friend on floor AND partner was trying to assist.

I was OK with coach, dad, ER doc friend...not so comfy with partner. Maybe I'm out of line - I don't know. That partner was 10 years my senior in both age and experience so I just let him do his thing and stayed out of the way.

[Adam]

I believe there are certain professional ethics of being an EMT that would trump our best practices. If the ER doc hadn't been present, your partner may well have been the most medically qualified person in the building. I've got no issue with a partner rendering medical assistance when it fits his qualifications until on-duty medical personnel arrive.

[DLH17]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I believe there are certain professional ethics of being an EMT that would trump our best practices. If the ER doc hadn't been present, your partner may well have been the most medically qualified person in the building. I've got no issue with a partner rendering medical assistance when it fits his qualifications until on-duty medical personnel arrive.

The fact he identified himself as a qualified professional and the dad nodding did help reduce the awkward factor - though there was still some uncertainty in me. The kid turned out ok....sat in the bleacher the rest of the game with his leg elevated and limped off the court after the game on him own. I guess, that's the most important thing.

As I read this thread and reflect on personal experiences, I wonder if doing much more than fetching ice or finding a clean towel puts us in a situation of more risk than we really want in most injury situations, regardless of our professional merits off the court.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by DLH17

The fact he identified himself as a qualified professional and the dad nodding did help reduce the awkward factor - though there was still some uncertainty in me. The kid turned out ok....sat in the bleacher the rest of the game with his leg elevated and limped off the court after the game on him own. I guess, that's the most important thing.

I will add that in summer ball, he may well be the most qualified person in the building. During the HS season in a sanctioned HS game, he most likely will not be the most qualified person present. At a college campus, I'd be willing to bet he's not even close.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Sigh. This ridiculous stance agan.

It is so arrogant to think that you are so much bigger than the game that you're not going to allow a parent to check on their injured child. I can guarantee that if somebody ever pulled that stunt in our association, they'd find themselves looking for assignments somewhere else.

Obviously you only work in pristine air-conditioned conditions with newly painted walls where everyone is cheerful and just there for the kids. In real life - letting parents come on the court is just asking for an escalation of the situation.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Obviously you only work in pristine air-conditioned conditions with newly painted walls where everyone is cheerful and just there for the kids. In real life - letting parents come on the court is just asking for an escalation of the situation.

Let me present a scenario.

A1 lands on a teammate's foot and tumbles into the wall, hitting his head knocking him unconscious. As you turn to beckon the coach, Dad comes running down the bleachers making a bee line for his son. His focus never leaves his child, he never so much as looks at the officials.

Take away the unconscious child, and now let's make it just the ankle or knee sprain from landing on his teammate's foot. Dad comes down to tend to his son, who is screaming in pain. Whatchagonnado?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Let me present a scenario.

A1 lands on a teammate's foot and tumbles into the wall, hitting his head knocking him unconscious. As you turn to beckon the coach, Dad comes running down the bleachers making a bee line for his son. His focus never leaves his child, he never so much as looks at the officials.

Take away the unconscious child, and now let's make it just the ankle or knee sprain from landing on his teammate's foot. Dad comes down to tend to his son, who is screaming in pain. Whatchagonnado?

I think we can agree that this scenario is a huge departure from what we were talking about.

The original situation included an already incensed parent. Big difference

However, I still maintain that having parents (fans, girlfriends, uncles, whatever) coming out of the stands onto the court is asking for trouble.

Start with - how in the world do YOU know this guy is his dad? Move on to - "Dad's" concern for his son begins to abate as he's being tended to, then he
decides it's YOUR fault for letting the game get out of control (or whatever).

Coaches and players know what is expected of them, behavior-wise, and know there are repercussions for crossing the line. Parents, fans, etc do not. You may get away with this 99 times. Then you may sincerely regret the 100th.

[DLH17]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I think we can agree that this scenario is a huge departure from what we were talking about.

The original situation included an already incensed parent. Big difference

However, I still maintain that having parents (fans, girlfriends, uncles, whatever) coming out of the stands onto the court is asking for trouble.

Start with - how in the world do YOU know this guy is his dad? Move on to - "Dad's" concern for his son begins to abate as he's being tended to, then he
decides it's YOUR fault for letting the game get out of control (or whatever).

Coaches and players know what is expected of them, behavior-wise, and know there are repercussions for crossing the line. Parents, fans, etc do not. You may get away with this 99 times. Then you may sincerely regret the 100th.

....which is another reason why i'm hesitant to see officials touch a kid for any reason (even tho, in some situations like relaxed summer ball - it may not be as big a deal). we never really know who we are dealing with. said player's dad could be a psycho, over protective, my johnny is my world nutbag.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by DLH17

....which is another reason why i'm hesitant to see officials touch a kid for any reason (even tho, in some situations like relaxed summer ball - it may not be as big a deal). we never really know who we are dealing with. said player's dad could be a psycho, over protective, my johnny is my world nutbag.

We can talk about possible psycho scenarios, and why not to get involved, all day long. If this dad really is a psycho, then simply touching his little johnny isn't the only reason he could get upset, he could also come running out of the stands to confront you when his kid got fouled and you didn't call it, costing his team the summer league 3rd place trophy. Or whatever.

The point is, if we act reasonably, there is no reason to fear any coach or parent when it comes to an injury. Almost all of the time there is someone more qualified than me to take care of any injuries, so I'm not involved in any way other than managing the game. If there's a chance I can help a severely injured player in any way, I'm helping, even if it's just to make them more comfortable until actual help arrives. If an adult comes out on the floor to tend to an injured kid, that's fine by me, and I'm not asking for an ID to see if they're a parent or specific relative. If they decide that's the time to take a free shot at any of the officiating crew, then they've bought themselves an early exit. It's not that hard.

[DLH17]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

We can talk about possible psycho scenarios, and why not to get involved, all day long. If this dad really is a psycho, then simply touching his little johnny isn't the only reason he could get upset, he could also come running out of the stands to confront you when his kid got fouled and you didn't call it, costing his team the summer league 3rd place trophy. Or whatever.

The point is, if we act reasonably, there is no reason to fear any coach or parent when it comes to an injury. Almost all of the time there is someone more qualified than me to take care of any injuries, so I'm not involved in any way other than managing the game. If there's a chance I can help a severely injured player in any way, I'm helping, even if it's just to make them more comfortable until actual help arrives. If an adult comes out on the floor to tend to an injured kid, that's fine by me, and I'm not asking for an ID to see if they're a parent or specific relative. If they decide that's the time to take a free shot at any of the officiating crew, then they've bought themselves an early exit. It's not that hard.

And, I would say acting reasonable in most situations would be to dispatch a runner for a bag of ice, call a coach in and/or walk away.

Risk automatically reduced.

If they do or say something out of line towards me - I'm with you, they get an early exit. Problem solved.

In short, I agree with your take, M&M.