after patient whistle

[rsl]

A1 gets bumps by B1 going to the hoop, but he is going to score an easy layup so I hold the whistle. Then, at the last moment B1 fouls a little harder and prevents the basket. I blow the whistle and give A1 two shots.

Coach B is upset. He saw the early bump and wants the foul before the shot.

If I have a patient whistle and end up with multiple calls, I get to pick which one, right? It doesn't seem I should have to sell this too much.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rsl

A1 gets bumps by B1 going to the hoop, but he is going to score an easy layup so I hold the whistle. Then, at the last moment B1 fouls a little harder and prevents the basket. I blow the whistle and give A1 two shots.

Coach B is upset. He saw the early bump and wants the foul before the shot.

If I have a patient whistle and end up with multiple calls, I get to pick which one, right? It doesn't seem I should have to sell this too much.

Here's the thing, if the first "bump" didn't prevent A1 from getting his easy layup, it wasn't a foul; it was incidental contact.

[grunewar]

I might consider the first bump incidental contact which didn't cause an advantage for B1, yet the second contact definitely caused the advantage and hence the missed shot - TWEET!

Snaqs types faster than me.....

[mbyron]

Who cares about Coach B? If you judged that the initial contact was not a foul, stick to your guns, man!

"Coach, I saw the contact and judged that it was incidental. We're shooting two."

[Adam]

Also, if he presses it and it's summer ball, I might suggest he find a rule book and look up the definitions of "foul" and "incidental contact."

Nah, I'd just say "first contact wasn't a foul." Then get the ball in play and move on if the coach lets you. If he doesn't, we get to shoot two more free throws.

[bainsey]

Always consider the coach's angle. He likely wouldn't have asked for that foul on the first contact had the second one not been called.

If you found the first not to be advantageous contact, simply say so.

[rsl]

Actually, the coach was not a big problem (though my post makes it sound like it)- he accepted my explanation.

I am still learning this whole patient whistle thing, and it is improving my game.

Sometimes, patient whistle means calling something incidental because you can see how it is going to turn out. Other times, patient whistle means a delayed call while you wait to see how it turns out. I am still working on when each one is right.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rsl

Actually, the coach was not a big problem (though my post makes it sound like it)- he accepted my explanation.

I am still learning this whole patient whistle thing, and it is improving my game.

Sometimes, patient whistle means calling something incidental because you can see how it is going to turn out. Other times, patient whistle means a delayed call while you wait to see how it turns out. I am still working on when each one is right.

Several years ago, in my first ever varsity game, I had a play near the division line in which A1 (with the ball) was bumped by B1. I waited, A1 wobbled, I waited, A1 stepped illegally. I called the foul. It took just a couple of seconds, but by the time I called the foul, B1 was about 10 feet away. I'd do it again the same way.

The most common one is your scenario, where the bump does absolutely nothing and if you call it, you're taking away a layup. I've made the call and taken crap from the coach for taking his layup away. I've passed on the call and taken crap only to have the coach agree with me when I told him why I passed on the contact.

[tref]

Originally Posted by rsl

Sometimes, patient whistle means calling something incidental because you can see how it is going to turn out.

Sounds like anticipating a call. Incidental is not a foul, by rule. Care to elaborate?

[rsl]

I mean that incidental depends on what happens and skill level. If the bump in the OP had caused the dribbler to lose the ball, it would not be incidental. But, it didn't and he was still on track for his layup, so it was incidental.

[tref]

Gotcha! Upgrading what was incidental to a foul after seeing the whole play is good thing

[Adam]

I'll just add that just because a player loses the ball after a bump does not mean there was a foul. You have to judge whether the bump caused it or not; sometimes players just lose the ball and any previous contact, no matter how recent, did not cause it.

[Jesse James]

And if B2 swoops out of nowhere to cleanly swat the "easy" lay-up?

Now do you whistle the initial bump?

[Berkut]

Originally Posted by Jesse James

And if B2 swoops out of nowhere to cleanly swat the "easy" lay-up?

Now do you whistle the initial bump?

I am probably not a very good official, but at that point I am thinking "Well, what caused that ball to not go in the basket? Was it that bump, or the fact that B2 just sent it into the stands?"

I got nothing then.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jesse James

And if B2 swoops out of nowhere to cleanly swat the "easy" lay-up?

Now do you whistle the initial bump?

Why? What did the bump do?