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Old Wed Feb 24, 2010, 09:55am
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Patient Whistle

GV County Game - I'm the trail, 4th Q, team A up 6, 2 min left and in the double bonus.

B1 guarding A1 who receives a pass, strikes A1 in the face while attempting to steal ball. I am straightlined and don't see the contact, but observe A1s reaction to contact as she grabs for her face. I blow a very late whistle for foul on B1.


Called a foul for contact I did not observe directly, but must have happened.

Coach of B wasn't happy but understood and agreed with the call.

Last edited by refnuts; Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 01:41pm.
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Old Wed Feb 24, 2010, 09:58am
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Not sure I'd have called that.
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Old Wed Feb 24, 2010, 10:01am
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I have had plays where I wasn't sure if there was contact to the face but upon seeing the reaction then blew my whistle.
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Old Wed Feb 24, 2010, 10:03am
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Not sure I'd have called that.
+1 Based on post, I wouldn't guess.
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Old Wed Feb 24, 2010, 10:29am
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Originally Posted by refnuts View Post
Coach of B wasn't happy but understood and agreed with the call.
Had you passed on the foul because you didn't see the contact, the coach of A likely wouldn't have been happy. Best to hold your whistle unless you directly observe the contact.
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Last edited by SWMOzebra; Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 10:46am.
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Old Wed Feb 24, 2010, 11:07am
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as I have worked w/ officials from higher levels (D1 and NBA) this season, it's been interesting to watch them only blow the whistle when they see the foul/violation. your call accuracy goes up when you only "call what you see". much better to blow when you know what happened rather than to guess (of course, you may guess right sometimes - but they don't pay us to be right "sometimes")....
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Old Wed Feb 24, 2010, 01:00pm
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Was this two person or three person?
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Old Wed Feb 24, 2010, 01:26pm
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If you don't see it, you can't call it.
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Old Wed Feb 24, 2010, 01:28pm
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Partners input

It was 2 person. Partner saw the contact but was not blowing a foul right in front of me.
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Old Wed Feb 24, 2010, 01:36pm
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Originally Posted by refnuts View Post
It was 2 person. Partner saw the contact but was not blowing a foul right in front of me.
So you guessed right.
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Old Wed Feb 24, 2010, 01:45pm
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I think the title of this thread should be "Not Guessing" instead of "Patient Whistle" because they two different topics :-)
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Old Wed Feb 24, 2010, 03:04pm
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Originally Posted by refnuts View Post
,,,,,,, but observe A1s reaction to contact as she grabs for her face. I blow a very late whistle for foul on B1.


Called a foul for contact I did not observe directly, but must have happened.
I have no problem with this. When you've been at it long enough you know what a genuine reaction to contact looks like, even if you didn't actually see it.

You can also call out of bounds without actually seeing the player step on the line. He looks down, then looks at you. It's written all over his face.
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Old Wed Feb 24, 2010, 03:09pm
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Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
I have no problem with this. When you've been at it long enough you know what a genuine reaction to contact looks like, even if you didn't actually see it.

You can also call out of bounds without actually seeing the player step on the line. He looks down, then looks at you. It's written all over his face.
"And so it goes, and so it goes. And you're the only one who knows."
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Old Wed Feb 24, 2010, 03:28pm
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Originally Posted by jeffpea View Post
as I have worked w/ officials from higher levels (D1 and NBA) this season, it's been interesting to watch them only blow the whistle when they see the foul/violation. your call accuracy goes up when you only "call what you see". much better to blow when you know what happened rather than to guess (of course, you may guess right sometimes - but they don't pay us to be right "sometimes")....
Im sure there will be plenty on here who might disagree with this and some who might:

Sometimes you can use visual cues to "aid" your playcalling, i.e., a player who jumps off both feet is a lot less likely to have illegal trajectory than a player who jumps off of one foot. A hit to the face is something that you absolutely can't miss. It can cause the player who got hit to not only be mad at you bc you missed what he/she knows is an obvious foul but also it gives that player more cause to retaliate later on seeking "justice" for what you did not call. I believe hits to the face spark more rage by the involved player than any other missed call in basketball. The player reacting as she did to the swing is a strong visual cue that she was indeed hit. I don't know many players at the college level and below who fake getting hit in the face, nose, etc. It happens a good amount at the pro level because these guys are masters at fool the ref type plays, but amateur athletes, I have come to find out, rarely, if ever fake getting hit in the face. If you are watching the whole play and see the swing and the reaction, but somehow don't absolutely see the exact time of contact, I believe you are still justified in using the visual cue and Basketball IQ to whistle this a foul.

and btw, jurassic it is good to see you back on the forum. I don't know where you went but its been too long.
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Old Wed Feb 24, 2010, 03:58pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by refnuts View Post
It was 2 person. Partner saw the contact but was not blowing a foul right in front of me.
Sounds like your partner should've called it with a patient whistle. If you see something in your partner's primary, wait a beat for them to call it and, using that time, figure out if they didn't have the best angle for some reason (straightlined etc.). If so, blow your whistle and save your partner.

I had a play a few weeks ago where I was caught out of position and would have liked the help. I was new trail in 2-whistle. A1 made an unexpected attempt to blow by B1 just passed midcourt, and I got stuck behind the play. B1 tried to get in front of A1 but never obtained LGP, contact (which I couldn't see) occurs, A1 stumbles and B1 falls to the floor. I waited a beat, decided a foul had definitely occurred even if I didn't see the actual contact and blew my whistle and put my fist up. I waited another beat to replay it in my head and then signaled a block, and almost everyone in the gym starts screaming that it was a stiff arm. I realize that, if it was, I'd had the absolute worst angle on the play and call my partner over.
"Did you see the contact?"
"Oh yeah. Blatant stiff arm."
I signal a PC foul. Team A coach wasn't happy, but that was mainly because he lost his best player to a fifth foul in a close game. Afterwards, I told my partner exactly what I said in the first paragraph.
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