T Up a Fan?!?

[sseltser]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Of course it is. The T is for someone going where they are not permitted or authorized to be. Plain and simple.

Rules reference?

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Is what I have in bold sound about right for the rule in question?

If I remember right, under rule 2-8-1, there's a note that states:
"The home management or game committee is responsible for spectator behavior, insofar as it can reasonably be expected to control the spectators. The officials may call fouls on either team if its supporters act in such a way as to interfere with the proper conduct of the game. Discretion must be used in calling such fouls, however, lest a team be unjustly penalized. When team supporters become unruly or interfere with the orderly progress of the game, the officials shall stop the game until the host management resolves the situation and the game can proceed in an orderly manner. In the absence of
a designated school representative, the home coach shall serve as the host management."

Originally Posted by sseltser

Rules reference?

The T or not to T reference is Rule 2-8-1. As the parent coming onto the floor without being summoned is considered unporting behavior by a spectator, altugh extuating circumstances are the cause.

Basically kind of a cause & effect, with the cause being a child getting injured & the effect being the parental instinct to check on their child by going out onto the court.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by chseagle

The T or not to T reference is Rule 2-8-1. As the parent coming onto the floor without being summoned is considered unporting behavior by a spectator, altugh extuating circumstances are the cause.

Basically kind of a cause & effect, with the cause being a child getting injured & the effect being the parental instinct to check on their child by going out onto the court.

That is absolute BS. Seriously - stick to running the clock. You have no concept of the intent or understanding of the rules from an official's perspective. In many ways, you are more wrong than 'representing' to be giving any advice here in this forum.

Discretion must be used in calling such fouls, however, lest a team be unjustly penalized. When team supporters become unruly or interfere with the orderly progress of the game, the officials shall stop the game until the host management resolves the situation and the game can proceed in an orderly manner.

In the case of an injured player, the game is already stopped. There is no orderly progress of the game at that point. Penalizing the team with a T is the absolute wrong thing to do if the parent is only attending to their injured child. What problem does this solve? How does this, in any possible way, make the game better?

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by Smitty

That is absolute BS. Seriously - stick to running the clock. You have no concept of the intent or understanding of the rules from an official's perspective. In many ways, you are more wrong than 'representing' to be giving any advice here in this forum.

Smitty, I've been told on more than 1 occasion from the floor officials that the table can intervene if they feel a rule is not being followed to the extent that the rule is something that the table has knowledge of.

Generally the rules in question are dealing with uniform presentation or the management of the books.

In the case of an injured player, the game is already stopped. There is no orderly progress of the game at that point. Penalizing the team with a T is the absolute wrong thing to do if the parent is only attending to their injured child. What problem does this solve? How does this, in any possible way, make the game better?

As I stated beforehand, the parent going out onto the floor is a cause & effect.

True, the game has been stopped, but how often in situations of a student-athlete being injured, is a parent actually summoned to come down for assistance?

How wluld the NCAA or NBA/WNBA handle the situation if a player was injured & the player's parent(s) came rushing to their side in the middle of the court?

Same thing can be asked of NFL, MLB, NASCAR, MLS, NHL, IFL, AF1, WWE, TNA, & other sports officials, no matter what the sport is.

For example: what would happen if David Stockton (son of John Stockton) got injured when Gonzaga was playing against the University of Portland, & John (his father) came rushing down onto the court to be by his son's side although he wasn't summoned/given permission?

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by chseagle

As I stated beforehand, the parent going out onto the floor is a cause & effect.

True, the game has been stopped, but how often in situations of a student-athlete being injured, is a parent actually summoned to come down for assistance?

How wluld the NCAA or NBA/WNBA handle the situation if a player was injured & the player's parent(s) came rushing to their side in the middle of the court?

Same thing can be asked of NFL, MLB, NASCAR, MLS, NHL, IFL, AF1, WWE, TNA, & other sports officials, no matter what the sport is.

For example: what would happen if David Stockton (son of John Stockton) got injured when Gonzaga was playing against the University of Portland, & John (his father) came rushing down onto the court to be by his son's side although he wasn't summoned/given permission?

You are a control freak. I have no doubt. Your argument is baseless. The difference between any of the leagues you mentioned and high school sports is that THESE ARE CHILDREN!!! As I said there is no way to have a rational argument with the irrational.

There are exactly two people arguing for the case of calling a T because a parent comes onto the court unbeckoned to attend to their injured child. You are both power mongers. A solution looking for a problem. Hammers looking for a nail....

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Smitty, I've been told on more than 1 occasion from the floor officials that the table can intervene if they feel a rule is not being followed to the extent that the rule is something that the table has knowledge of.

Oh and in any situation where I didn't ask you for your help and you pulled this one out of your a$$, especially this situation, my response would be a firm "Shut up or I will have you replaced".

[zm1283]

chseagle (clock/crowd control boy) has worn out his welcome on this board if you ask me.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by zm1283

chseagle (clock/crowd control boy) has worn out his welcome on this board if you ask me.

Mostly because he states that pro wrestling is a sport and uses "sports officials". Can't give any credibility to anyone who thinks that.

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by chseagle View Post
Smitty, I've been told on more than 1 occasion from the floor officials that the table can intervene if they feel a rule is not being followed to the extent that the rule is something that the table has knowledge of.

Originally Posted by Smitty

Oh and in any situation where I didn't ask you for your help and you pulled this one out of your a$$, especially this situation, my response would be a firm "Shut up or I will have you replaced".

I think we need to give up and defer to the old adage "Never argue with an idiot - he'll only drag you down to his own level then beat you with experience." He is so blatantly wrong on so many counts that there is no point listing them. Clearly a loose cannon - hope whatever school he works for has good liability insurance....they're probably going to need it.

Did you make it to Portland OK? Hope you enjoy the rest of the Holidays!

[Rich]

160+ posts in this thread and I just can't help myself, so here goes:

I don't care if a coach or parent is beckoned or not. If a kid is injured to the point where a coach and/or parent feels like he/she needs to come out, I've beckoned them (maybe retroactively). My first supervisor gave me this piece of wisdom back in the late 1980s and I've lived by it since then.

Then I get the hell out of the way and let those who have a stake in this do their thing.

On top of this, if the parent says something to me due to an emotional response of seeing her kid hurt on the court, I'm likely going to give that a pass, too. Same with the coach, although I may give the coach a bit less rope.

Under no circumstances would I ever issue a technical foul for this or banish anyone from a gym. I'd have to have left my common sense at home to choose the nuclear option for something like this.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by chseagle

As I stated beforehand, the parent going out onto the floor is a cause & effect.

True, the game has been stopped, but how often in situations of a student-athlete being injured, is a parent actually summoned to come down for assistance?

How wluld the NCAA or NBA/WNBA handle the situation if a player was injured & the player's parent(s) came rushing to their side in the middle of the court?

Same thing can be asked of NFL, MLB, NASCAR, MLS, NHL, IFL, AF1, WWE, TNA, & other sports officials, no matter what the sport is.

For example: what would happen if David Stockton (son of John Stockton) got injured when Gonzaga was playing against the University of Portland, & John (his father) came rushing down onto the court to be by his son's side although he wasn't summoned/given permission?

It depends. If it was a Jay Burson type injury, I doubt anyone would say anything. If it was an ankle roll, John isn't coming down.
Mainly, though, it's not the same thing. You're talking about adults verses 14-18 year old kids.

And Smitty's right, if a scorer so much as mentioned calling a T to me in this situation, I'd firmly remind him to mind his own duties and stay out of mine. Frankly, that goes for a lot of the things you think the scorer can jump in on.

[bbcoach7]

Originally Posted by chseagle

How wluld the NCAA or NBA/WNBA handle the situation if a player was injured & the player's parent(s) came rushing to their side in the middle of the court?

Same thing can be asked of NFL, MLB, NASCAR, MLS, NHL, IFL, AF1, WWE, TNA, & other sports officials, no matter what the sport is.

For example: what would happen if David Stockton (son of John Stockton) got injured when Gonzaga was playing against the University of Portland, & John (his father) came rushing down onto the court to be by his son's side although he wasn't summoned/given permission?

Once again, in your case, less is more. Stop trying to make your point. The more you say, the worse it gets. You are only burying yourself deeper and deeper under the debris of your past comments.

All of those people you mention, "NFL, MLB, NASCAR, MLS, NHL, IFL, AF1, WWE, TNA, & other sports officials, no matter what the sport is," are OVER 18 YEARS OF AGE!!! THEY ARE NOT LEGAL MINORS!!!

Your post is completely irrelevant.... AGAIN!!!

[sseltser]

Originally Posted by chseagle

The parent coming onto the floor without being summoned is considered unporting behavior by a spectator

This is not punishable by a technical foul under 2-8-1. Read (actually read) 2-8-1 and tell me what these spectators have done that interfere with the proper conduct of the game. In addition to that, the 2-8-1 also states to use discretion, so even if you find something that interferes with the proper conduct of the game, it has to be so painfully obvious that it definitely deserves to be penalized and the penalty is "just" to the offending team*. (*Even though the action isn't by a team member.)