T Up a Fan?!?

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Look for the kid from the student section! He's the one in the red T-shirt and blue jeans.

YouTube - NVECapture.0008.mpg

Great video! Super learning tool there!

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by grunewar

Great video! Super learning tool there!

Concerning that fan running out onto the floor there at Beasley Coliiseum, the game management & crowd control were not doing their jobs properly. Of course, if WSU is still using the company I think they are for crowd control, this wouldn't surprise me much. Guess this means that the company needs to train it's Ambassadors better.

[bbcoach7]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I won't, but security might.

You don't belong out there. It's that simple. I don't understand why people have such a hard time grasping this. The playing court is for the players and officials, no one else. PERIOD.

What do you personally do in cases where the stands are only a few feet from the edge of the court, and the fans are constantly walking onto the edge of the playing court durring play,as they go from stands to snack bar, or stands to the bathrooms, etc? This happens all the time in tight little gyms. Do you stop play and administer justice Nevada? Do you have an over-zealous CHighSchooleagle type watching closely for these court violations, and tip you off? Or do you divert your own attention away from the game to watch for these violations of your's and the players soveriegn space?

Do you use your common sense and good judgement to ignore these violations of the playing court space as long as they are brief and unatrusive to the game? Then when it actually matters, when there is actual emotion attached to the situation -as in a player down- do you then choose to step in and do something about it?

Seems like a pretty silly question, doesn't it? It's actually less silly than your position about a parent coming out of the stands to provide comfort and concern to their child.

[bbcoach7]

Originally Posted by chseagle

So even if the medical personnel say not to move the student-athlete, even though the parent does, that's ok?

What about the Hippocratic Oath?

The WHAT??? Serious? I defy you to come up with anything remotely more irrelevant to this situation that the Hippocratric Oath. It's an OATH man!!! It's not regulatory, it's not law, and it has no weight in this situation at all. Legally, no EMT, paramedic, doctor, or any kind of medical professional has the authority to over rule the parent of a legal minor.

Yes, it's ok for a parent to move their child against the best advice of the medical personnel present. It's ok legally, and that's a very different thing from it being the smartest thing to do. Moving a kid may be the worst thing to do, but it doesn't matter. It's the parents right to do as they choose. To the point of insisting on no treatment for a life threatning injurty or illness. A Medical Waiver form is intended ONLY to give permission for a minor to be treated in the absence of the parent's direct consent. In no way what so ever does a Consent Form give up a parents rights or authority to anybody else. Any serious attempts to interpret this form as over-riding a parents authority is just asking for trouble- even if you're ethically or morally correct.

While I'm at it... standing in between a concerned parent and their injured child is not defusing or de-escalating a situation. It is certainly not good crowd management by any stretch. It would very likely have exactly the opposite effect of calming the situation, and would be a very dumb thing for you to do. If you step aside, nothing happens beyond perhaps some resentment from an over-zealous and miss guided rules nazi who should never be in charge of managing people. If you block the parents path, now you do have a potentially volatile situation which has been incited and escalated by you! Hell hath no fury greater than the concerned parent who is told to stay back. This could easily end up with you punched and the parent arrested; when all you needed to do was step aside like an intelligent person would do.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by bbcoach7

What do you personally do in cases where the stands are only a few feet from the edge of the court, and the fans are constantly walking onto the edge of the playing court durring play,as they go from stands to snack bar, or stands to the bathrooms, etc? This happens all the time in tight little gyms.

Sorry to disappoint you, but I don't officiate in any such gyms in my local area.

[bbcoach7]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

What happens when your child is transported to the hospital for surgery? Does the surgeon permit mom and dad into the operating room? People really need to get over their sense of self-importance and remain where they belong.

Bad analogy, completely different situation. In this case, the parent has given their consent to the surgeon either by the medical waiver form, or much more likely by the forms signed at the hospital. In any case, consent has been given by the parent to the doctor. In the case of a player down, there is nobody on that court who the parent has given their consent to. Mom and Dad are still ultimate authority. They can refuse the surgery even against the best medical advice.

Your idea of who might want to consider their sense of self importance is a good idea, as often our best ideas are the ones we realize are for and about our selves, even when we originally though they were intended for others.

This hypothetical situation has nothing to do with any sort of sense of self importance. The very idea is an injury and insult to intelligent linear thought. When a baby comes out of your vagina, there's a very strong emotional attachment that can cause an adult to forget all about silly rules when they see their child hurt on the floor. THis is of the deep care, concern, and passion a parent has for their child, which has zero to do with a sense of self importance.

I know I'm a howler monkey, so automatically I have no credibility, but I've read a lot of your comments, and I used to think you were a pretty sharp referee who exhibited a good measure of smarts. But your comments in this thread are just bizzare.

[bbcoach7]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You seem to be okay with random people coming onto the court during games which you officiate. I don't feel that that provides a safe environment for the participants and officials, so I'm not okay with it.

Who in this entire thread said anything about "random people" coming onto the court during a game? Oh, I see, only you have said that. So if you say it, is everyone else just supposed to assume someone who you're arguing against (everyone) said it, and you're quoting them?

when engaged in an argument with multiple persons, one realizes that they are the lone person representing their opinion, while numerous others have a different opinion, one may want to reconsider their position, (hint, hint) unless of course they are incapable of doing that.

[bbcoach7]

Originally Posted by chseagle

If the crowd control is licensed, more liability can be brought against them depending on their actions. However in most circumstances, for school sporting events the crowd control is normally school staff that are not licensed as crowd control/secuirty, or volunteers that may or may not have any training or be licensed.

There is no such thing as a licensed crowd control. Not even a police officer is a "licensed" person. There is a very significant legal difference between someone who holds a "license," and someone who holds a "certification." No State, organizing body, or anything else you want to call it or can come up with offers a licence for crowd control. There's just no such thing, got it?

Sometimes less is more, and you're proof of that. The more you say, the more evident it is that you don't have any idea of what you're talking about. One of the biggest liabilities in any situation is somebody who has training, but very little experience. Training is necessary, but experience is far more valuable than training. Training without a lot of experience only qualifies someone for "training wheels." Training without a lot of experience qualifies a person to follow the direction of someone who does have experience.

Stay behind the table. Don't get up till the game is over unless it's to get your free hot dog. Don't interact with coaches, players, or fans. Let the teams or the referee's take care of untucked jerseys, resist the urge to say something. In fact, as if your life depended on it, resist all impulces to do or say anything more involved with the game than your job. If barely anybody in the building has noticed your presence, you've probably done your job well.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Look for the kid from the student section! He's the one in the red T-shirt and blue jeans.

YouTube - NVECapture.0008.mpg

Great clip of a fan running onto to the floor during live ball play.

It has absolutely nothing to do with a parent coming onto the floor to check on his/her child who has an injury that is being attended to during an injury timeout.

[bbcoach7]

Originally Posted by chseagle

How wluld the NCAA or NBA/WNBA handle the situation if a player was injured & the player's parent(s) came rushing to their side in the middle of the court?

Same thing can be asked of NFL, MLB, NASCAR, MLS, NHL, IFL, AF1, WWE, TNA, & other sports officials, no matter what the sport is.

For example: what would happen if David Stockton (son of John Stockton) got injured when Gonzaga was playing against the University of Portland, & John (his father) came rushing down onto the court to be by his son's side although he wasn't summoned/given permission?

Once again, in your case, less is more. Stop trying to make your point. The more you say, the worse it gets. You are only burying yourself deeper and deeper under the debris of your past comments.

All of those people you mention, "NFL, MLB, NASCAR, MLS, NHL, IFL, AF1, WWE, TNA, & other sports officials, no matter what the sport is," are OVER 18 YEARS OF AGE!!! THEY ARE NOT LEGAL MINORS!!!

Your post is completely irrelevant.... AGAIN!!!

[bbcoach7]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Concerning the insurance issue with the ambulance, it's recently been changed to where the only people allowed with the patient is the ambulance crew. My family does not like the policy, especially since used to riding in to the hospital via shotgun in the past.

This is not surprising at all, as no doubt your family probably frequently needs to come visit you in the hospital. Because if you actually go around doing the kinds of things in real life that you talk about doing in here, I'm guessing you probably get beat up a lot.

[bbcoach7]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Like I mentioned before, I'm not putting the full responsibility on the officials...

You're not putting anything anywhere, hypothetically or otherwise. You don't have the authority, nor the knowledge. You hold no license, and your certification won't even get you a cup of coffee at an AA meeting (it's free). In fact, it would appear that your contribution here is primarily that of unintended comic relief. Which grows less and less appealing by the post, because the intent is to be taken seriously, which is not a possibility.

[icallfouls]

bbcoach7, After reading your posts on this thread, all I can say is....

BRAVO! BRAVO!

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by bbcoach7

This is not surprising at all, as no doubt your family probably frequently needs to come visit you in the hospital. Because if you actually go around doing the kinds of things in real life that you talk about doing in here, I'm guessing you probably get beat up a lot.

Originally Posted by icallfouls

bbcoach7, After reading your posts on this thread, all I can say is....

BRAVO! BRAVO!

Oh yeah, very classy.

It's one thing to express a different opinion, but a completely different matter to just fling insults at someone and thoughts of physical violence.

Congrats on following him down into the gutter.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by bbcoach7

This is not surprising at all, as no doubt your family probably frequently needs to come visit you in the hospital. Because if you actually go around doing the kinds of things in real life that you talk about doing in here, I'm guessing you probably get beat up a lot.

...........I, myself, was so obnoxious, the seniors used to beat me up once a week. ***





***Eric Stratton "Otter"