T Up a Fan?!?

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

No one other than bench personnel or the medical trainer is ever allowed to come onto the court during a game. PERIOD.
If random people come out without being granted permission, then they need to be removed from the facility.

Now the part with which many here will disagree. Over the past few years, I have become convinced that if the behavior of a spectator at a HS game is poor enough to warrant an ejection, then a team technical foul should also be assessed, and that can be supported per 2-8-1:Penalize unsporting conduct by any player, coach, substitute, team attendant or follower.

I firmly believe that if the team/coach can't control their fans/followers, then they should be penalized.

Is what I have in bold sound about right for the rule in question?

If I remember right, under rule 2-8-1, there's a note that states:
"The home management or game committee is responsible for spectator behavior, insofar as it can reasonably be expected to control the spectators. The officials may call fouls on either team if its supporters act in such a way as to interfere with the proper conduct of the game. Discretion must be used in calling such fouls, however, lest a team be unjustly penalized. When team supporters become unruly or interfere with the orderly progress of the game, the officials shall stop the game until the host management resolves the situation and the game can proceed in an orderly manner. In the absence of
a designated school representative, the home coach shall serve as the host management."

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Is what I have in bold sound about right for the rule in question?

If I remember right, under rule 2-8-1, there's a note that states:
"The home management or game committee is responsible for spectator behavior, insofar as it can reasonably be expected to control the spectators. The officials may call fouls on either team if its supporters act in such a way as to interfere with the proper conduct of the game. Discretion must be used in calling such fouls, however, lest a team be unjustly penalized. When team supporters become unruly or interfere with the orderly progress of the game, the officials shall stop the game until the host management resolves the situation and the game can proceed in an orderly manner. In the absence of
a designated school representative, the home coach shall serve as the host management."

You did all of that from memory? WOW!

I believe that Billy Mac would like to speak to you about what supplements you are taking.

(Yes, those are the correct rules citations.)

[just another ref]

When the baby, regardless of age, falls hard and doesn't get up, some parents are not going to ask anybody's permission before checking on him/her.
I, personally, can't see myself taking any action against this parent if that's all he/she was doing.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by just another ref

When the baby, regardless of age, falls hard and doesn't get up, some parents are not going to ask anybody's permission before checking on him/her.
I, personally, can't see myself taking any action against this parent if that's all he/she was doing.

That's any parent's reaction when their child gets hurt, no matter the age.

However, from my understanding, the only ones allowed on the floor during an injury timeout are supposed to be the coach & medical personnel (perhaps the parent coming on the floor was an EMT or nurse).

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by chseagle

However, from my understanding, the only ones allowed on the floor during an injury timeout are supposed to be the coach & medical personnel (perhaps the parent coming on the floor was an EMT or nurse).

Perhaps, and perhaps he was a street car conductor or a fry cook. (Billy Mac will explain later)

Where does this information come from?

[biggravy]

If he comes on the floor and just checks on his daughter not realizing, he probably gets told the rule. He may not know. As soon as he starts in it's BUH BYE.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by chseagle

That's any parent's reaction when their child gets hurt, no matter the age.

However, from my understanding, the only ones allowed on the floor during an injury timeout are supposed to be the coach & medical personnel (perhaps the parent coming on the floor was an EMT or nurse).

Originally Posted by just another ref

Perhaps, and perhaps he was a street car conductor or a fry cook. (Billy Mac will explain later)

Where does this information come from?

I've seen enough injury timeouts in person, so was just going off of what I have witnessed.

When I was Boys' Basketball Manager, I had 1st hand experience in an injury timeout when one of our star players was pushed into the bleachers & was knocked unconscious for a few minutes. During that injury timeout, there was a bit of a gathering around (especially since he was on the sidelines), however a perimeter around him was kept open where the only ones near him was the coach & medical personnel. The parents were there but were not directly at his side until he got moved into the locker room for further assessment.

[representing]

When my sister played varsity basketball, my mom was the type to run onto the court if she was seriously hurt. Referring back to when I mentioned my sister was knocked out for just a few seconds, that was the only time (that I know of) that my mom actually went down onto the court to check on her. For me, I'm ok with it as long as it is just one person and it has to be a mom, dad or guardian (only because I don't want someone younger claiming to be a brother, sister, etc. and actually just be a fan with no relations). But like some have said, let GM manage with it and get away from the injured player once a coach or trainer comes to the player.

I've learned this from veteran officials... don't get in between an overprotective mother or father and her/his kid. That will cause even more problems or grief.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

No one other than bench personnel or the medical trainer is ever allowed to come onto the court during a game. PERIOD.
If random people come out without being granted permission, then they need to be removed from the facility.


I firmly believe that if the team/coach can't control their fans/followers, then they should be penalized.

Originally Posted by 2-8-1

The officials shall penalize unsporting conduct by any.........follower.

Note:
"The home management or game committee is responsible for spectator behavior, insofar as it can reasonably be expected to control the spectators. The officials may call fouls on either team if its supporters act in such a way as to interfere with the proper conduct of the game. Discretion must be used in calling such fouls, however, lest a team be unjustly penalized. When team supporters become unruly or interfere with the orderly progress of the game, the officials shall stop the game until the host management resolves the situation and the game can proceed in an orderly manner. In the absence of
a designated school representative, the home coach shall serve as the host management."

So you consider when a mom steps out to hold her daughter's hand while she is assisted from the court after tearing her ACL to be unsporting conduct?

Doesn't sound very discreet to me.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by just another ref

So you consider when a mom steps out to hold her daughter's hand while she is assisted from the court after tearing her ACL to be unsporting conduct?

Doesn't sound very discreet to me.

What if a member of Game Management escorted the parent out onto the court to maintain some order?

Basically this is a catch-22 as that if the parent is only going out to comfort their child isn't viewed as unsporting behavior. However if that parent is going out to complain to the floor officials that their child was fouled & arguing the call it is considered unsporting behavior.

I can see if game management announced overhead that no one go onto the court except for the coach &/or medical personnel, but how often do announcements like that happen?

Again, this comes down to how game management should handle things as well as the floor officials.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by just another ref

So you consider when a mom steps out to hold her daughter's hand while she is assisted from the court after tearing her ACL to be unsporting conduct?

Doesn't sound very discreet to me.

If a player tears her ACL, she isn't going to be remaining in the gym anyway.

The general principle is that the playing area, no matter what the sport, is off limits to spectators. Only the game participants, officials, coaches, and medical personnel are to be there. Anyone else who violates this perimeter earns an ejection. That area must be inviolable.

This is the only policy which makes sense in order to ensure the safety of those involved with the contest.

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

My only objection here is to the ridiculous notion that by signing a medical waiver I am somehow prohibited from being directly involved in caring for my injured child.

You can be involved as long as you remain outside of the playing area. You can be consulted by those who are present to provide such care.

In the event that the injury is deemed serious, it makes sense to have your participation, but you aren't sticking around for the rest of the contest if you elect to enter the playing area and I am one of the officials.

I can't imagine that you would want to anyway, for if the injury is truly that serious, you would be accompanying your young one to another location for further medical treatment.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You can be involved as long as you remain outside of the playing area. You can be consulted by those who are present to provide such care.

In the event that the injury is deemed serious, it makes sense to have your participation, but you aren't sticking around for the rest of the contest if you elect to enter the playing area and I am one of the officials.

And on top of this, you would call a team technical?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by just another ref

And on top of this, you would call a team technical?

If the person came out without the permission of game management--absolutely.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

If the person came out without the permission of game management--absolutely.

I may be wrong again, but I think I speak for us all when I say.......wow.

[chseagle]

What about if the parent requesting to come out onto the court is a Dr./EMT/Nurse or other medical personnel?

What if the student-athlete has several allergies to medications that the parent knows about, but not the coach?

Not every coach is going to know the exact medical histories of all their players, nor will they have such files handy in case of such a situation.

There are extenuating circumstances that would allow parents to come out onto the court in a medical emergency.