T Up a Fan?!?

[just another ref]

Okay, no more name calling and sarcasm.............for now.

All these references to medical release forms, liability, and proper ways to treat injuries have one thing in common, they have nothing to do with basketball. A player is injured. The game stops from my perspective and the injured player gets top priority. If both parents, the trainer, the personal physician, and the priest all come out to attend, I don't see the negative effect on the game.

When the injury issue is resolved, my partner(s) and I will resume our duties.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Yes, you are.

It is so like you to try to turn such a statement around and point it at an official who insists that people don't go where they shouldn't. You simply don't grasp the argument.

You probably have a picture of an official running over trying to stop the people from coming out of the stands. That is not realistic.

What is realistic is for the official to find a far away location until the situation finishes and then to assess whatever penalties are necessary for the conduct. That is a big difference from being personally involved, and that is what makes the people who run over "self-important" and the official not.

So you stand back quietly and watch when Mom comes out to help her son up. When it turns out to be an ankle sprain, the son sits on the bench with an ice pack, but Mom has to leave? And the other team gets free throws??

Thanks, Mom.

[gslefeb]

There are two questions in this arguement.

One: Do you think Parents should come onto the court to see their injured Child?

Two: If Parent does come onto the court without being beckoned, would you give them a T?


I would rather the Parent's STAY in the stands, until waived onto the court by either me or the Coach.

I would not give a T to a parent in any case.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Okay, no more name calling and sarcasm.............for now.

All these references to medical release forms, liability, and proper ways to treat injuries have one thing in common, they have nothing to do with basketball. A player is injured. The game stops from my perspective and the injured player gets top priority. If both parents, the trainer, the personal physician, and the priest all come out to attend, I don't see the negative effect on the game.

When the injury issue is resolved, my partner(s) and I will resume our duties.

You think this way because you are not well-versed in the rules. Too bad that you don't read more and write less.

2-2-3 . . . The officials’ jurisdiction extends through periods when the game
may be momentarily stopped for any reason.

[gslefeb]

Kids are in bed, Santa is done... need to get a few hours sleep before kids wake up early tomorrow.

Merry Christmas

[chseagle]

A parent can be involved throughout the whole process, however when medical personnel are directly involved, the parents are to be as active bystanders (answering medical history questions), not being in the middle of everything getting in the way.

If no medical personnel are available, the parent can become more directly involved.

I'm surprised it's not a regulation for all high school athletic events that EMS must be present. Apparently the NCAA has this regulation, as is what I heard after the unfortunate incident with Derrick Roland.

Unfortunately not all schools have the luxury of having Athletic Trainers available to them at all times.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by gslefeb

There are two questions in this arguement.

One: Do you think Parents should come onto the court to see their injured Child?

Two: If Parent does come onto the court without being beckoned, would you give them a T?

That is a nice way to frame this debate.

Originally Posted by gslefeb

I would rather the Parent's STAY in the stands, until waived onto the court by either me or the Coach. [or game management]

Agree.

Originally Posted by gslefeb

I would not give a T to a parent in any case.

Disagree.

[sseltser]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You think this way because you are not well-versed in the rules. Too bad that you don't read more and write less.

"The officials may call fouls on either team if its supporters act in such a way as to interfere with the proper conduct of the game."

Please describe said interference, because I don't see it.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by sseltser

"The officials may call fouls on either team if its supporters act in such a way as to interfere with the proper conduct of the game."

Please describe said interference, because I don't see it.

You don't see entering the court without permission as improper?

[sseltser]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You don't see entering the court without permission as improper?

I do. I don't see it interfering with the conduct of the game.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by sseltser

I do. I don't see it interfering with the conduct of the game.

Then what sanction do you propose for that improper conduct?

[sseltser]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Then what sanction do you propose for that improper conduct?

If fan leaves gym with injured child, nothing. There is no interference with the game, nor future problem.

If fan wishes to remain in gym:
"Mr. Game-Management-Supervisor, please go speak with that person who came on the floor and remind them that they can't come onto the floor anytime they please. Thanks."

If fan was unruly towards anyone while on floor:
"Mr. Game-Management-Supervisor, please go speak with that person who came on the floor and escort them out of the facility before we resume the game. Thanks."

Again, the foul can be issued if it interferes with the game. I don't believe these actions interfere with anything, except for maybe the few cases where the medical personnel are bothered by overzealous nervous parents.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by sseltser

I don't believe these actions interfere with anything, except for maybe the few cases where the medical personnel are bothered by overzealous nervous parents.

Agreed. And even then, it is not an issue for the officials to deal with.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by chseagle

So even if the medical personnel say not to move the student-athlete, even though the parent does, that's ok?

What about the Hippocratic Oath?

(snipped a bunch of irrelevant stuff)

If I was a coach or floor official, I would rely more on the professional judgement/opinion of a medical professional than a paranoid, frantic parent. Parents, true, are doing what they think is best for their child(ren), but at what cost?

So in all actually the only way a parent should be allowed on the court is if they are medical professionals. If not, they need to stay out of the way of those that are. Like I said before, a parent should be involved yes, but only after the student-athlete has been removed from the court & out of sight of all spectators.

If I was working crowd control in this situation, I would physically put myself between the parent & the student-athlete so that they could not become one until after removed from the court. One of the primary rules in crowd control is to de-escalate the situation before it gets blown out of proportion. By allowing the parent onto the court, you have just allowed a match to be lit in a potentially explosive situation.

First, no one takes this oath as a parent. Second, it's irrelevant.
Third, if I, as a parent, am at the game, I will make all decisions on my child's medical care with consultation of the doctors. I know my child's medical history better than anyone else in that building.

And yes, my parental rights trump everything else. If I make a decision, and some coach or doctor I don't know tries to stop me, there will be legal hell to pay like you've never seen.

And, if, as a parent, I decided I needed to be on the court with my child, you would be putting yourself in physical danger by trying to prevent me from getting on the court.

6 years ago, my younger brother (26 at the time) had cancer removed from his chest. That first night after surgery, he went into respiratory arrest due to a morphine overdose. My dad made it clear to hospital staff that they would have to have him arrested in order to keep. Do you think any other father would be different? Do you think any high school security person is going to keep him off the court?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by sseltser

If fan leaves gym with injured child, nothing. There is no interference with the game, nor future problem.

If fan wishes to remain in gym:
"Mr. Game-Management-Supervisor, please go speak with that person who came on the floor and remind them that they can't come onto the floor anytime they please. Thanks."

If fan was unruly towards anyone while on floor:
"Mr. Game-Management-Supervisor, please go speak with that person who came on the floor and escort them out of the facility before we resume the game. Thanks."

Again, the foul can be issued if it interferes with the game. I don't believe these actions interfere with anything, except for maybe the few cases where the medical personnel are bothered by overzealous nervous parents.

The problem with the way that you are handling this is that there is absolutely no deterrent to spectators from coming onto the court whenever they deem it necessary.

I don't believe in permitting this type of behavior. Therefore, I favor having strong sanctions against it. You seem to be okay with random people coming onto the court during games which you officiate. I don't feel that that provides a safe environment for the participants and officials, so I'm not okay with it.